Hey, how does the line out on the Hot Plate sound with impulses (compared to actually putting a mic on the cab without an attenuator)?
Mesa Boogie dual rec with impulse
- Thread starter CAMILOGOD
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Hey, how does the line out on the Hot Plate sound with impulses (compared to actually putting a mic on the cab without an attenuator)?
I don't know what Shane would say about his experiences but I know when we used a HotPlate at the old studio + impulses it sounded a little different than just using the HP as a load for the head and using the line-out or FX Send + impulses. Not necessarily bad or anything, just a little different. It seems like the HP colors just a tad. We opted to just use the HP as a load.
~006
~006
Wild Hades
Clean channels are for pussies
It's pretty normal...
If you take the output from the HP, you're taking the signal processed by the preamp and power amp (and the HP too, that can't be transparent to the sound)...
If you use the fx-send you're taking only the signal from the preamp and considering that impulses have the power amp frequency response "printed" inside, I would always use this solution (otherwise it's like chaining 2 poweramps in series)...
This doesn't mean that you can't get better results using the HP output btw...
Yeah, I think I probably should've mentioned that about impulses. Impulses have 4 basic elements that are captured: 1) the power section of the amp used to make it, 2) the cabinet/speaker(s), 3) the microphone, and 4) the room (even if there is very little, it has an effect). So when you are using the output of the HotPlate you are getting the preamp and poweramp signal combined. The coloring I was referring to is when you apply an impulse you are basically blending two power sections together (1 from the impulse and the one from your amp). Like I said, not bad...just different.
~006
~006
Wild Hades
Clean channels are for pussies
Don't forget 5) the mic preamp/AD converters 006 
Aaagghh, WildHades beat me to it, and even had the 5) and smiley face as well!
Aaagghh, WildHades beat me to it, and even had the 5) and smiley face as well!
Wild Hades
Clean channels are for pussies
Hahaha, yeah... I mean, if I were using a Hot Plate + impulses, I'd make impulses using a flat SS poweramp so I could mess with the poweramp controls on my amp as I felt like it. My question was more about what precisely the Hot Plate does to your sound, all other things being equal (amp through miked cabinet vs. Hot Plate direct through impulses of that cabinet). Coloration isn't necessarily bad, but I'd like to know how it colors it before I drop $250 on something I may or may not find usable. 
Well as I and 2012 have been saying, there's no reason you should even need the Hot Plate at all because your amp has a master volume...
Wild Hades
Clean channels are for pussies
As an attenuator, I think it could reduce some low and hi end definition... not sure btw...
Before dropping 250$ I would drop a lot less building a dummy load... just a few resistors, a female jack and a switch for different impedances...
Before dropping 250$ I would drop a lot less building a dummy load... just a few resistors, a female jack and a switch for different impedances...
Wild Hades
Clean channels are for pussies
One reason could be the power amp tubes distortion, for example...
The master volume attenuates the signal BEFORE the power amp (and the phase inverter), the HP attenuates right AFTER it...
But if he's plugging the slave out into the interface to use impulses, then the power section is bypassed anyway in favor of the one in the impulses...
Even with my 5150's master at 0, enough low end thump makes it to the cab to be heard in the next room, and I'm looking for silent recording. Plus, with the master at 0, hardly any signal is getting to the line out (since the line out is between the master volume and the poweramp).
At low (non-zero) master settings, the master pot itself colors the tone, mainly rolling off highs. It doesn't seem to let the full range of the signal through until 1 or 2, and at that point, a 5150 is already pretty loud. If I didn't care about how the poweramp responds dynamically to the signal (the negative feedback reduction of the presence control, for example), I'd still at least need a dummy load to shut the thing up. I'd rather be able to tweak resonance and presence as I record, which is the reason I'd use a Hot Plate rather than just make a dummy load and use the line out.
Wild Hades
Clean channels are for pussies
All I'm saying is, we didn't really like the sound of two poweramps blended. It can work, I'm sure...it would actually be cool to sit down and try to find good combinations, the results could be amazing if the right pairing(s) could be sorted out. I mean, if you think about it, if you use an impulse with the FX Send/Line (preamp signal only) you get great results anyway, like a Mesa pre section into an Engl poweramp in the impulse...or a Marshall with a Mesa 6L6 power section...
The best bet, IMO, would be to do like you mentioned already which is to make an impulse using a transparent/flat SS power amp. That actually sounds like a really good idea to me. Because then you'd only have cabinet/speaker/mic/room/pre/converters, basically what a cabinet impulse should be anyway, the way I look at it.
~006
The best bet, IMO, would be to do like you mentioned already which is to make an impulse using a transparent/flat SS power amp. That actually sounds like a really good idea to me. Because then you'd only have cabinet/speaker/mic/room/pre/converters, basically what a cabinet impulse should be anyway, the way I look at it.
~006
Ahhhhhhhh, OK, thanks! So the Hot Plate's coloration on the signal from the poweramp was minimal through the Hot Plate's line out, as far as you could tell? That's basically what I'm trying to do, just get as clean a DI signal as possible from my amp, poweramp and all. I can find all sorts of info out there about several attenuators, but no one really says anything about the transparency of the line out on any of them, which is the only thing I'm really after!
Well...through the HP, it's not the HP itself that is coloring, I should've explained that in my original reply, but rather the color of the power section in the amp you are using. So, yes, the HotPlate doesn't color the sound, basically. An impulse has power section color in it, so it's going to blend with the power section of the amp you are using it on. Maybe this helps:
-Amp + HP (line from HP) = pre and power section
-Amp (FX Send/Line Out) = pre section only
-Impulse = power section, cabinet, speaker, mic, room, pre/converters
-HP(line)+Impulse = your amp's pre and power section + the power section of the amp used to make the impulse
-Amp (FX Send/Line) + HP (as load only) = pre section from your amp + the power section of amp in the impulse
It was the blending of two power sections that we did not prefer, but as I said I'm sure some favorable results can be had if the time were spent to figure out the right combinations. We didn't spend that much time on so we went with what knew would work already which was using the FX Send of the amp we were using.
~006
-Amp + HP (line from HP) = pre and power section
-Amp (FX Send/Line Out) = pre section only
-Impulse = power section, cabinet, speaker, mic, room, pre/converters
-HP(line)+Impulse = your amp's pre and power section + the power section of the amp used to make the impulse
-Amp (FX Send/Line) + HP (as load only) = pre section from your amp + the power section of amp in the impulse
It was the blending of two power sections that we did not prefer, but as I said I'm sure some favorable results can be had if the time were spent to figure out the right combinations. We didn't spend that much time on so we went with what knew would work already which was using the FX Send of the amp we were using.
~006
Even with my 5150's master at 0, enough low end thump makes it to the cab to be heard in the next room, and I'm looking for silent recording. Plus, with the master at 0, hardly any signal is getting to the line out (since the line out is between the master volume and the poweramp).
I'd rather be able to tweak resonance and presence as I record, which is the reason I'd use a Hot Plate rather than just make a dummy load and use the line out.
The 5150 doesn't have a master volume dude, it has a channel volume - and we were referring to the original poster with his Dual Rec, not you
EDIT: Oops, I just realized I actually was responding to you before, cuz I thought you were the OP
The 5150 doesn't have a master volume dude, it has a channel volume - and we were referring to the original poster with his Dual Rec, not you
EDIT: Oops, I just realized I actually was responding to you before, cuz I thought you were the OP
Hahaha, no problem, man.
006 pretty much answered my question, in any case! ...Although my question may be a moot point after ReValver III comes out, I guess we'll see...
