Metaalmoeheid (Is there a thing as too much Threshold?)

[Leppy]

Before I start, I'd like to say that I'm a huge Threshold fan and this message is by no means meant to offend or degrade the band at all. ^___^ Please keep your pitchforks and torches at home!


My first chance to see Threshold live was in 2007 (not counting the Critical Energy DVD). It was awesome!!! My favourite band with my favourite singer!!! I saw them in Zoetermeer supported by Serenity, Machine Men and Communic (they only played 90 minutes ), and I saw them supporting Within Temptation in Eindhoven alongside Agua De Annique.

I saw them in Zoetermeer again in april 2008. Then I saw them in Zoetermeer AGAIN in january 2009, and in Uden on may 1st 2009.

Now, I love Threshold and love to see them time and time again. In fact, I'm going to see them in november 2009 in Zoetermeer again, and I'm going to the DWB in october, also Zoetermeer.

Last time in Uden something struck me. Threshold's live shows are always magnificent, but... it's a lot of the same thing. The same clothes, the same way Damian sings the songs, similar setlists compared to the last time they visited Holland, the opening with Slipstream, the closing with This Is Your Life (with Damian holding that one note for a long time at exactly that point every time).

I've spoken to other Threshold fans and they all say Threshold has to be careful that they don't repeat themselves over and over again. They've been touring since 2007. It's 2009 now, and there's no sign of a new album.

I'm not saying I dislike Threshold, or that they should stop touring. But maybe they can play an entirely different setlist next time? One that mostly includes songs they haven't played on this tour? They have an extensive back catalogue... I'm sure it's possible. I mean, I'm very happy they do play a song I haven't seen live every now and then (Part of the Chaos, Days of Dearth, Eat The Unicorn, etc)

I heard there's a new direct-to-fan CD coming out containing newly recorded old unreleased songs with Damian and Glynn singing. Why not play a few of those? Heck, why not bring Glynn along for the ride as guest and let him sing a couple of songs? Perhaps even duet with Damian? ^_^

I know that one person's opinion probably won't mean much. The real die-hards will probably never ever grow tired of seeing Threshold live, no matter what. But I'm sure there's a lot of people who, along with me, would like something a little more different. Of course, you could all tell me and the others to just stay home if we don't like it, and I'm sure a lot of them will, but me personally...I don't want to give up on Threshold. I'd much rather go see them and hope for a few surprises. ^^

They can keep going as they are now for the next couple of years (this year at least), but don't be surprised if there's a decrease in the sales of tickets (for the Dutch shows at least).

Again, I don't mean this as an offense, or to degrade Threshold, but rather to warn them and suggest a bit of a change, keep people alert and coming. It'd be a shame if they played for a mere 30 die-hards because they've made people weary with the same tricks over and over again, now wouldn't it? ^_^

Well, I'm going in circles here, and I'm increasingly getting the feeling my message will come across as wrong and that I will be told to sod off and rot away at home if I don't like it.

I think I'll end my message here.
Cheers,
Leppy

 

[LavagesOfTime]

I would write a long post to reply to you but a look at my injuried finger made me think it would take ages, so I thought FG will probably reply to you and I will probably agree with him

 

[forgottenglory]

Now...where's my pitchfork and torch!

OK...seriously, I feel that Leppy has hit on some sensitive points. As a long time and die hard fan, you'd be surprised that I agree that Threshold should experiment more in the garment, stage show and song list department. I can understand them playing that tried and tested formula which works for them but I've lost count of the number of times that I've heard people say that they have started repeating themselves on record. This is why I started a thread some time back asking people what they would like to hear Threshold do differently on the next record.

Although, one could argue that Threshold experiments a lot on the DTF releases (but that experimentation is usually in a non-Metal department) I find that there is a pattern that has been repeating itself for the past three records, save for the commanding Death Metal grunts on DR. I for one would like to see them break away from the straight forward, 'easy listening' songs (there were too many on Dead Reckoning, in my opinion) and experiment more with the progressive side by writing longer songs with a bit more complex arrangements whilst retaining the undeniable sense of melody that characterises Threshold. I would also like to hear longer guitar solos (sometimes I was left wanting more with the shorter guitar solos). I would also like to hear the keyboards used to create atmospheres as opposed to predictably dueling with the guitar solos.

Again, just like Leppy this is not meant to be insulting or degrading towards Threshold. Due to my 'close' connection to the band, I have held back my deepest thoughts in the past as I don't want to hurt the feelings of the band members. But I would say that this is constructive criticism from one of your biggest fans as opposed to senseless slagging.

I love and respect Threshold. I love the lyrics but would like them to be more adventurous musically. I feel they have earned the right and respect to spread their wings and experiment within the style they have developed without the fear of either losing their identity or corrupting the spirit of Threshold...it is safe to fly.

PS. I don't think you will agree with me Rob and please don't tell me that it's all been done on Subsurface because it hasn't!

 

[Ayreonaut]

get out your clubs somebody is slagging Threshold...

No actually i do agree, i too have seen the guys 7 or 8 times in the last 2 years. And i would like to see some more changes in the setlist. not just one song a tour. And bring back sanity's end dammit....

 

[Light]

And Paradox

I understand people clamouring for a few different songs exchanged between "segments" of a tour, but what's all this about costumes??

Is it time to summon Damian's zebra spacesuit from out of the dark place again?

 

[LavagesOfTime]

Predictably, I agree with FG's tour-related opinions.

and please don't tell me that it's all been done on Subsurface because it hasn't!

 

[forgottenglory]

Is it time to summon Damian's zebra spacesuit from out of the dark place again?

I understand people clamouring for a few different songs exchanged between "segments" of a tour

It would also be nice to hear different interpretations of the songs. For example, I have a collection of Santana concerts from different tours in my playlist on wolfgangsvault.com. There isn't a song that is played in the same way twice. The songs have different arrangements and yet they still strangely sound familiar. Some songs are extended versions of the original with a new keyboard passage or an new version of the guitar solo. Changes like this keep the songs fresh and exciting.

 

[Cello]

i do agree with the people that have voiced their opinions before, more with the people talking about changing up the tour than FG on the songs though. The albums themselves are masterpieces and although experimenting is sometimes good, I don't know if you should experiment too much when you've got a good thing going on within the limits of which you can still do your thing without sounding repetitive. I personally don't think Threshold has reached the stage yet where they're starting to sound repetitive and are still doing a wonderful job of putting songs out within the limits of the 'stage' (for lack of a better word) in their musical development they are in now.

However, I do agree with Ayreonaut and others when they say a bit more variation could be applied to the setlists when touring. With the amount of songs available to them it shouldn't be too hard to vary out a few songs, while keeping in the audience favourites.

(also, bring back Sanity's End and Fragmentation! )

 

[forgottenglory]

Just to make things clear I love ALL Threshold albums. However, I feel that the time has come to get out of the comfort zone, be bold and experiment a bit stagewise and recordwise - I'm not saying they should change the sound (I love the Threshold sound) and start being grunge or industrial but rather think of different ways of structuring the songs. Would be a shame to be progressive and stagnating!

 

[BurningDownTheMiddle]

Hmmm...


Just in from a journey that was certainly a Long Way Home and a little tired (and a night shift to do tonight!!!)

I think I'll join the debate tomorrow with a fresh pair of eyes. And a less ascerbic tongue!

But it certainly looks like it could be an interesting discussion

 

[BurningDownTheMiddle]

Okay let's start with live performances

1 - same clothes? Who cares? There's plenty of bands been wearing the same stuff for years and I also tend to wear the same clothes to gigs - boots, jeans, leather jacket, Threshold T shirt (for everyone but Maiden)

2 - same voice? Short of surgery there isn't much he can do about that. You will also find more than enough people who are very happy with the DW voice. There were definitely some at the Peel who were there to see DW

3 - setlists?

Well let's have a closer look

From the current setlist, 6 out of 16 (38%) are from DR, a fairly normal share for a current album. There are 70 odd tracks to choose from - there will always be a slant towards the latest material and this still is the Live Reckoning tour, not a nostalgia tour. There is also a lot more to consider when putting the setlist together and I doubt they sit down and conduct an analysis of percentages - how the songs fit with each other (both to the ear and for guitar changes), and how much time there is to rehearse for example will be more important. We all expect a tight show and with fairly complex tracks to play it is surely always going to be pretty tough to achieve that time after time if the setlist is constantly changing. If these were 4 minute classic rock tracks then that would probably be easy enough but surely one of the attractions of the bands music is the complexity. The regularity of the set list is one of the payoffs for the skill on show. But the setlist has changed massively over the past years.

If you look at the current set list (16 tracks), CE (18), Surface2stage (10) and concert in Paris (8), that is a total of 52 tracks played.

Compare the current list with the three live CDs - of the 16 tracks played just now only 6 appear on those discs. (Oceanbound, Long Way Home 3, Light and Space 3, Ravages of Time, Mission Profile, Pressure). In total, of the 52 tracks, there have been 40 individual songs played, 32 of them just once. That sounds like fairly good variety to me. (and I can think of at least one more that has been played on this extended tour that isn't on any of them)

The bottom line is we aren't always going to be happy with an entire setlist but having caught two Live Reckoning dates I've been more than happy with what's been on offer.

 

[BurningDownTheMiddle]

I find that there is a pattern that has been repeating itself for the past three records, ..... I for one would like to see them break away from the straight forward, 'easy listening' songs (there were too many on Dead Reckoning, in my opinion) !

Well I've missed that pattern. And that is certainly a new interpretaion of "easy listening". I think some of that sun bleached sand has got stuck in your ears!

The latter albums are more similar to each other than earlier ones - WL being all the more raw, EI being quite "out there", but there is no sense of formula which is the implication you give. I found DR in particularly to be heavier and pacier, the heaviness in particular translating to the stage with the current renditions of some older tracks packing a much bigger punch.

I think it also needs to be remembered (in both the live setlist and studio discussions) that there are many, many fans coming on board for the very first time. They like the new material (that's why they've just come along) and want to hear it live, and will expect some links to the future studio material

 

[LavagesOfTime]

The only "serious" complaint about the setlists with Damian on vocals, to me, should be about the lack of songs from Clone. Ok, most of them have been played during the previous tours with Mac but, just to name one, Voyager II would be great to hear.

Oh, to be picky: songs from Psychedelicatessen, too, would be more than welcome. What about A Tension Of Souls?

 

[forgottenglory]

^ Yes, I agree they should play at least one song from each album.

 

[LavagesOfTime]

From the thresh.net website:

Commented Threshold guitarist Karl Groom: "The tour this Autumn looks like a great opportunity to play some songs I have long looked forward to. Damian took on an enormous task of learning so many lyrics since he rejoined the band, but now we have the possibility to work on a whole new live set before recording a new studio album. With some previously unperformed epics and a new stage show I hope fans will enjoy this tour."

 

[LavagesOfTime]

With some previously unperformed epics and a new stage show I hope fans will enjoy this tour."

Remembering Damian's outfit on the Star One DVD, the "new stage show" thing looks promising!