Metal Lyrical Content

[Death Aflame]

I don't see how this helps your case. Exactly what lyrical form do those Buried Inside lyrics exemplify? If I think such a form is crap then what is so wrong with me criticizing it by pointing out that it fails to exemplify a form that I think is potentially good? I like certain documentary films, though I would never judge the quality of a documentary film with exactly the same standards I would employ in judging, for instance, a fictional drama (though some standards might overlap). However, if I thought that the very idea of a documentary film was crap, then I would not be out of line in criticizing a documentary film for failing to be something it was not intended to be and which I think would be preferable.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that you could not despise an entire genre or mode of cultural production (of course you can), I was simply trying to point out that if you despise the lyrics based on qualities generally attributed to that particular mode of practice then your issues with the band's lyrics in particular are merely symptomatic about what you dislike about the genre/mode as a whole. I say 'merely' because your position would be akin to rejecting all documentary film, which is a generally unreasonable position to hold that would result in me dismissing your criticisms as being unconvincing (unless you have sufficient justification for rejecting an entire genre or style and I have yet to see convincing arguments of this sort for why the lyrics are awful, beyond your own impressionistic observations--for instance you simply use a negative tone to point out that the lyrics are tirade-like, how or why is this a bad thing, in your view? [Note: I am looking for something more substantial than "I don't like tirade-esque lyrics"])

I really do not see what artistic merit can be found in a bunch of tirades interspersed with half-baked "profundities".

Obviously I disagree with your assessment--their lyrics take on the form of a political polemic (I suspect they are anarchist in origin, but I cannot be sure) that I find are well reasoned and argued. This is what I value in them. Again, the topics are well researched (complete with an overarching thesis) and thought out which can be seen if you have the opportunity to read through the lyrical booklet accompanying the cd.

For instance, the argument that the fallacy of wildlife conservation is positing is an anti-human-centric approach to ecological issues, which is in contrast to the human centric policies currently enacted to 'protect' wildlife for us, from us. This is the contradiction which I think is an important one to highlight, though clearly it is but a smaller issue in a larger political landscape.

However, as you say, whether or not you find value in this message (in content or form, or both) is up to you.

I don't recall denying anything artistic status, but if I suggested such a thing I didn't mean to.

Well you did say that they were "totally artless", so unless I took that the wrong way you did seem to suggest this initially.

 

[SeterPellers]

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that you could not despise an entire genre or mode of cultural production (of course you can), I was simply trying to point out that if you despise the lyrics based on qualities generally attributed to that particular mode of practice then your issues with the band's lyrics in particular are merely symptomatic about what you dislike about the genre/mode as a whole. I say 'merely' because your position would be akin to rejecting all documentary film, which is a generally unreasonable position to hold that would result in me dismissing your criticisms as being unconvincing (unless you have sufficient justification for rejecting an entire genre or style and I have yet to see convincing arguments of this sort for why the lyrics are awful, beyond your own impressionistic observations--for instance you simply use a negative tone to point out that the lyrics are tirade-like, how or why is this a bad thing, in your view? [Note: I am looking for something more substantial than "I don't like tirade-esque lyrics"])



Obviously I disagree with your assessment--their lyrics take on the form of a political polemic (I suspect they are anarchist in origin, but I cannot be sure) that I find are well reasoned and argued. This is what I value in them. Again, the topics are well researched (complete with an overarching thesis) and thought out which can be seen if you have the opportunity to read through the lyrical booklet accompanying the cd.

For instance, the argument that the fallacy of wildlife conservation is positing is an anti-human-centric approach to ecological issues, which is in contrast to the human centric policies currently enacted to 'protect' wildlife for us, from us. This is the contradiction which I think is an important one to highlight, though clearly it is but a smaller issue in a larger political landscape.

However, as you say, whether or not you find value in this message (in content or form, or both) is up to you.



Well you did say that they were "totally artless", so unless I took that the wrong way you did seem to suggest this initially.

I believe, in this case, as some metal lyrics are social/political/spiritual criticism, they can characterized as "art" within the conventional definition. Writing, and this is highly subjective, is an art form. Satire is an art form - Kurt Vonnegut did it very well. It's how a lot of these lyrics are written.

Now,do we take them seriously, as a cue of reasonable doubt in the state of our society...that's for the individual to decide.

I see them as highly important, as do I see all forms of civil protest.

 

[skeptik]

Writing in itself is not an art form. Journalism, for example, barring extreme examples, is not an artistic form of writing.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

abhorrent neglect of the impoverished, massive unemployment and a failing economy. How many of you are actually aware of these things, as human beings? And as fans do you feel like you have an obligation to listen to the messages that the bands you listen to are putting out there?

No, we're all fucking monkeys!

I hardly get upset on these boards but you sir are a fucking tool.

...as human beings? haha uke:uke:

 

[SeterPellers]

No, we're all fucking monkeys!

I hardly get upset on these boards but you sir are a fucking tool.

...as human beings? haha uke:uke:

Hahahaha, okay.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Because you're a pretentious fool.

 

[Death Aflame]

Because you're a pretentious fool.

Maybe English isn't his native tongue you assuming trendfuck.

However, if this is not the case, then feel free to ignore my first comment.

 

[SeterPellers]

Because you're a pretentious fool.

I don't feel as if I know any more than you - and you are assuming that I am actually always like this. I'm adhering to the subject, something you have failed to do.

 

[Einherjar86]

Didn't Ministry make a bunch of albums about the Bush administration? Stuff like that gets dated extremely fast, imagine in 20 years when no one will get what the hell he's singing about.

Well, it helps to immortalize history. I mean, Neil Young wrote Ohio about a specific incident, and we still know what he's talking about.

He means that they're so damn direct they lack any kind of real artistic quality; they're just an annoying diatribe.

I thought anything can be art?

The fundamental definition of art doesn't specify that it has to be beautiful in order to be art, or even imply it.

Well, it sort of does*, but the fact remains that beauty is completely subjective and therefore not a useful term for definition.

*edit: OK, it doesn't, I just needed something to say here. ORIGINALLY, the purpose of art was to display beauty, but as humanity changed and diverse cultures became integrated into the artistic world and vice versa, and subcultures found everything from pain to death "beautiful", it's really pretty much lost its entire objective meaning; it's just not useful anymore. Hope that clears it up.

V5 is right here. Originally, it was believed that art should depict images of beauty and perfection. Art that failed to do so was considered impure, corrupting, and essentially "bad."

 

[challenge_everything]

I've never heard Buried Inside but I can respect lyrics like that. Ignorant and shallow attempts at political lyrics piss me off, but these are clearly written by an intelligent person who has spent some time refining their views. I don't see why the fact that they are direct polemic should count against it. -Core music has always had an aesthetic of fast aggressive music pumping out an angry message against society. It beats goofy attempts to evoke imagery ie most black metal "the _____ forest and the ______ night" (insert poetic adjective of your choice). Not to mention that every second metal song has a misused word or grammatically incorrect phrase.

 

[Death Aflame]

These statements are not true. Aesthetic =/= beauty; artistic =/= beautiful.

This is the first thing my Aesthetics prof said in our first class today.

 

[Cromulent]

By the way, you do know that social/political messages in music have been around since at least the '60s, right? You make it sound like this is a revolutionary sort of idea.

Music has been revolutionary for much longer than that. You just need to listen to the French national anthem to realise that music has been used for political purposes for hundreds of years. The Nazis and Soviets made extensive use of music in their propaganda films as well.

Also what about music such as "Land of Hope and Glory" by Elgar and Benson? Political / social music if I ever heard it.

 

[AchrisK]

I understand that taking in the whole creation in a piece of musical art can lead to the fullest enjoyment of it, but I still rarely read or know any lyrics that are not clearly decipherable while listening to music. The reason for this is mostly time and interest, I suppose. I don't care too much, and I don't have the time to care.

I believe there are two potential side effect of my listening habits. 1) I miss out on some enjoyment based on the lyrcis and how they fit the music, and 2) I get to enjoy music with dumb lyrics because the lyrics don't get a chance to detract from the music.

All things considered, I am happy enough with how it balances out.

 

[Vashti]

Well, what I have noticed is that I've seen multiple metalheads claim that metal bands aren't "poets" but they are great at musicianship. They were implying that metal musicians cannot write beautiful lyrics, but this proved to be false in my opinion. I find intelligent lyrics within metal, not only whether it's about politics, philosphy, or religion. But I mean lyrics in general that portray emotions of sadness, anger, confusion, or whatever emotion the musician is feeling, in a poetic way. I like the way they are written most of the time.
I have noticed in All Shall Perish lyrics that they have focused on subjects that people don't normally think about. But as myself, everyday when I arrive to school I see the selfishness and idiocy there and am sickened. And it is a relief for fans of the same nature to see such lyrics to know they aren't the only one. Someone mentioned that why would we need metal bands portraying important messages if no one would listen because it's an underground genre. Well there's your answer, it could just be something for a fan, who feel like they are the only one, to hold on to. In Europe, metal is not as underground as it is here in America. So you know, these messages can be heard there.

Do I think I am obliged as a fan to listen to these messages? Of course not. I feel obliged because I live here on this Earth and see the wrongs so I feel obliged because of that, not because I'm a fan of the band.

I didn't read every single person's posts, but I do agree somewhat that you can differentiate between metalcore lyrics and metal lyrics because core lyrics usually contain some layer of un-poeticness by saying swearing on every line and trying to come off as hardcore and rebellious....but undeniably, some bands do have great messages and you cannot deny that even though they have trouble portraying their messages and intelligent thoughts in a beautiful way, they are not idiots.


Metal lyrics (not all) approach and say what the world is afraid to speak. But no one dares to listen because it is too much for them, the sound and the message. But it is important that they be said because it is better that these messages be said than not be spoken at all.

 

[sarkain]

Lyrics in metal aren't generally that important for me, but it kinda depends on the style of the music. Like for example, if I listen to some thrash, I know that the lyrics are going to be some crazy tongue-in-cheeck world destruction/toxic attack shit so I won't be paying too much attention to them. (Thrash metal in general has a strange fixation on chemicals and toxins btw, almost every album is named "Toxic Assault" etc, just a funny thing I noticed) The same goes with death metal lyrics, they don't tend to be that intelligent either. And it is fine for me, because these kind of lyrics work best with thrash and death metal. There are exceptions in these genres tho.

Some bands have very sophisticated and intelligent lyrics tho, that have a real message or are just generally good. It was great to see how Phil Anselmo's lyrics developed through Pantera's career, and The Great Southern Trendkill's got some very interesting lyrics. They click perfectly with the dark, somewhat psychedelic atmosphere of the album.

Another band that usually has great lyrics is Opeth. Since they usually make concept albums, all of the lyrics on an Opeth CD are related to each other, forming a big story. The lyrics are also full of emotion and are pretty metaphorical.

Death also has great lyrics. Chuck Schuldiner was also a lyrical genious, and his philosophical lyrics are lightyears ahead any average death metal band. The lyrics are written of real life experiences and showcase very deep thinking.

 

[harmonic_minor_shred]

I love how Gojira are environmentally conscious. Toxic Garbage Island's outro:

"Plastic bag in the sea!
It's a plastic bag in the sea!"

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

That's just dumb.

 

[Mort Divine]

Lee Dorian lyrics are my favorite.