Metal, socially unacceptable for its values?

[waif]

Metal lyrics are purely metaphorical. It's a powerful way of expressing their ideologies. If you can't read between the lines, than I'm sorry for you.

I disagree with this. Strongly. I won't say that there isn't some metal that is serious, or has lyrics that express the ideologies of the bands, but I think you're overstating the case. Example: Cannibal Corpse - one of the goriest, most revolting bands out there. But (vocalist) George Fisher is a huge WOW fan. If Entrails Ripped From A Virgin's Cunt is a metaphor for his ideology, explain why he gets such a kick from running around Azeroth as a digital goblin or whatever.

I think that people tend to overanalyze a band's message. A lot of them just want to play metal.

 

[Cromulent]

I disagree with this. Strongly. I won't say that there isn't some metal that is serious, or has lyrics that express the ideologies of the bands, but I think you're overstating the case. Example: Cannibal Corpse - one of the goriest, most revolting bands out there. But (vocalist) George Fisher is a huge WOW fan. If Entrails Ripped From A Virgin's Cunt is a metaphor for his ideology, explain why he gets such a kick from running around Azeroth as a digital goblin or whatever.

I think that people tend to overanalyze a band's message. A lot of them just want to play metal.

Some bands do it for the pure enjoyment of the music while others do have an ideological motive. Personally I think black metal lends itself to ideological music much more than death metal ever has. What ever your feelings on it, NSBM is a clear indication of this.

 

[waif]

Some bands do it for the pure enjoyment of the music while others do have an ideological motive. Personally I think black metal lends itself to ideological music much more than death metal ever has. What ever your feelings on it, NSBM is a clear indication of this.

Oh, definitely. Black metal is far more ideological. And some bands are entirely ideological; I've actually seen interviews with several black metal bands (Gorgoroth and I think Arkhon Inaustus or something) who stated that they don't care about the music, it's all about the message.

 

[10293847]

I listen to metal and social acceptance figures in to my actions.

Then you're not understanding Metal's primary message.

 

[Blowtus]

Accepting for a moment your sweeping generalisation - of what possible use could failing to consider the ramifications of your actions upon yourself be, and why would I trust 'metal' over my own rationality, passion and experience?

 

[waif]

Good point. Understanding and agreement are not synonymous. Just because you understand what metal is trying to say doesn't mean you should consider it to be more important than your own thoughts.

 

[10293847]

Accepting for a moment your sweeping generalisation - of what possible use could failing to consider the ramifications of your actions upon yourself be, and why would I trust 'metal' over my own rationality, passion and experience?

Well, that's the entire point. If you're failing to understand Metal, then you're losing out on something potentially greater. But if you fall under the, "ignorance is bliss" camp, then I suppose you can feel ok with yourself.

Also, it's not a matter of trusting Metal, it's a matter of understanding it. You don't have to necessarily agree with what Metal's message is, but if you are completely unaware of it's message, then your opinion regarding it is going to be completely inaccurate.

 

[Blowtus]

Rather than carry on seemingly pointlessly re the notion that metal has some distinct message, I'd just like to point out that there is a substantial distinction between the concepts of 'being true to oneself' and 'entirely disregarding what other beings think.' I would be inclined to view the former as powerful and the latter as weak posturing.

 

[Jeff-Loomis-fan]

ok iv been reading this thread i for one dont listen too much to lyrics im am a musician and metal just seems to be on of the most complex music, also just as classical but that just isnt my style

but when i read the lyrics of bands mostly they arent about war more about making a statement and how fucked up things are, and you can agree with that or not, but if you dont agree you going to make an issue of it? i think not

 

[Outstreched Fingers]

When friends of mine ask me why metalheads like graves, skulls and such things i didnt have a clue how to answer it.

I ve clear skin and black suits me, besides that I consider Metal to be a true inspiration of life, lyrically and musically. As most things in life, including people, you have to dig deep to find the true meaning.

Metal values can be in lyrics such as Maiden's "Running Free", Angra's "Carry on", Dark Tranquillity's "Am I One", while the beauty of our music - Nightwish's Oceanborn, Tristania's Beyond The Veil, Shade Empire's Sinthetic - can surprise even the Spice Girls fanatic.

On the matter "Metal socially unaccepted", well it's easy: to be a valuable part of your little society (your group of friends for example) you have be popular, that's the awful truth. I never was. The guy who introduced me to metal wasnt either.

If your non-metal friend hears Kamelot for the first time, his/her reaction is probably good - "wow i thought metal was worse" - but it's not gonna become a devoted follower because it's not something popular.

Kamelot is far more accessible than Maiden, but in the 80's listening to Maiden, Priest and values-free hardrock was being popular. The difference is: while the breasted smiling beauties sang along the catchy chorus of Aces High or Run To the Hills, the deeper souls knew lyrics and higher meaning of both songs (WW2 and indians)

In conclusion, we have to be happy that metal is not accepted by this short-sighted society, it's us who must continue not to accept this society the way it is. Disco music inspires sex, metal music inspires souls.

 

[WeAreTheLastMen]

Rap is mostly a poseur trend, although it's been around for decades now. Rap is encouraged by the establishment.

That's ridiculous. (I assume that, by "the establishment" you refer to some vague convolution of religion, government, and any other institutions which don't suit you.)

 

[Vimana]

Rap has gone through a lot more than Metal has. Rap has been around for centuries, it wasn't 'til the last few years that Rap was plagued, don't make an opinion on tons of music that falls into a genre if you have only heard a tiny bit of it. I really like Rap, and Metalheads need to realize that Rap is not all about bling and money and shit. Thats just 50 Cent and the worthless mainstream Rap. There is Rap that is about politics, the ghetto, death, love, war, and tons of other things. Rap is basically poetry spoken by griots merged with drum beats. Saying Rap is all about bling is like saying Metal is all about worshiping satan. Lots of Metalheads complain about how people make ignorant opinions on Metal based on a few bands yet they make ignorant opinions on genres like Emo and Rap based on a few bands.

And on topic. Its not like the world hates Metal, I don't get shit for listening to Metal and everyone at my school knows that I do. Its not like Metal is discriminated against or universally hated, in fact a lot of preppy kids at my school have no idea what Metal even is.

Metal can make you think outside the box, I have nothing against Metal, obviously because I'm on this forum. But different music makes your mind react in different ways. Just because Metal makes you think doesn't mean its superior. I like music that clears my mind, or gets me pumped up depending on what mood I'm in.

 

[OldScratch]

That's ridiculous. (I assume that, by "the establishment" you refer to some vague convolution of religion, government, and any other institutions which don't suit you.)

Religion? Government? Doubtful. However, the degree to which the greater entertainment and media "establishment" have embraced and mercilessly peddled rap/hiphop, almost at times to the exclusion of all other popular musical genres(see MTV, etc.)is astonishing. The hiphop "culture" is also touted like no other, to include the mainstreaming of "ghetto" terminology, clothing/jewelry, etc.

Metal gets a doddering, incoherent Ozzy Ozborne and his corpulent, foul-mouthed offspring or Brett Michaels and a housefull of whores to represent our "culture" and music!?!:Smug:

 

[derek]

I'm still unsure what establishment you're talking about. It's important to be clear about terms. I can concede that the music industry is contrived in a sense but I'm not making the leap to blaming it on a hazily defined establishment.

 

[FinalRevival]

I think life is really what you make it. And you live in a world that is exist the way you like it to be. Well, if you want to be a journalist, then you have to try to see the other opinions and other views of people since they all are parts of this society.

I see the world as an whole with everything in it. Now we are trying to subtract metal out of it to see what the world would be like without it.

I think metal is there for a reason. It is the part of the balance in this world. May be it is the message for the rest of the society. For some listeners it may be the therapy. There is a reason for people who listens to metal music. Some people take it like a therapy to be able to go on with their life. And some others have different perspectives.

This or that, we all have direct or indirect connection to eachother. Believe it or not, metal has a connection to the whole society in this world.

Some people question if a particular music is harmful to the society. I think it is not harmful. People pushed to do that. It is like... you can kill yourself anytime you want. But you are still alive because you are not pushed to do it so. People end up at certain point through certain life stories. Everything gives us a message with their life style but it is us that can decrypt it.

Every music style has its goods or bads. But who define that anyways. We don't give a fuck about the society at all. We just like the idea of us giving a shit about the society. We can criticize all we want but it sounds like we want to dominate the society with what we know right. So thats justice?

I think I don't need a reason for me to do something I like. Of course there is a reason behind it but I don't have to prove myself since everybody will take it the way they want to see it. And I, of course, will answer the questions of people who are smart to ask one.

 

[Vimana]

I don't think any music is harmful unless you let it be harmful. Just like violent videogames. The majority of people who play GTA don't shoot cops but some do.

We can criticize all we want but it sounds like we want to dominate the society with what we know right. So thats justice?

+1

I've seen lots of Metalheads say people who like Rap should be burned and shit. And that they have the greatest views and stuff. Lots of Metalheads say everyone is so discriminating yet they are even more discriminating. I've seen Metalheads say people are retarded worthless fags for listening to Fall Out Boy. Musical taste doesn't define you, maybe to a certain extent but still. There are dipshits who listen to Mozart and Geniuses who listen to Simple Plan.

"You are who you are by the thoughts you let dominate your mind".

When Metalheads or anyone music lovers have no social life, all they think about is music. And musical taste becomes their rating for the value of a person.

 

[OldScratch]

I'm still unsure what establishment you're talking about. It's important to be clear about terms. I can concede that the music industry is contrived in a sense but I'm not making the leap to blaming it on a hazily defined establishment.

The establishment in question is both a loosely knit or directly interconnected amalgam of the mainstream media, the entertainment industry(major record labels, film and TV studios, MTV, VH-1, Fuse, entertainment press, etc.) and the like.
Surely we could argue endlessly about the motivations of peddling certain types of music over others, or its generally contrived nature overall, but that would all be speculation. What I am saying is that this greater establishment, or collective if you will, plays an enormous part in determining what is deemed "popular" in music and other entertainment, often while ignoring or simply downplaying the impact of other musical genres, etc.

This is certainly the case in America. It may be altogether different elsewhere.

 

[derek]

Hmmm. I recall the monopoly of radio channels in the U.S - a few years ago alot of dust was kicked up about it because they were seemingly plugging certain artists/tracks cynically.

Still, part of the blame has to lie with the masses willing to consume and enjoy this vacant music.

 

[waif]

Rap has gone through a lot more than Metal has. Rap has been around for centuries, it wasn't 'til the last few years that Rap was plagued, don't make an opinion on tons of music that falls into a genre if you have only heard a tiny bit of it. I really like Rap, and Metalheads need to realize that Rap is not all about bling and money and shit. Thats just 50 Cent and the worthless mainstream Rap. There is Rap that is about politics, the ghetto, death, love, war, and tons of other things.

I think he's talking about the branch of rap that has become popular since the 90's that emphasizes drugs, prostitution, money, cars, crime, etc, and perhaps also the extremely vapid mainstream hip hop and whatnot occupied with sex and relationships, music that lacks artistry, originality, and integrity. Not sure I stand behind this 100%, but I agree that metal generally has more to say than this brand of rap. I think that writing off all forms of rap is wrong, however, as some of it is, as you say, about meaningful stuff or whatever.

Its not like the world hates Metal, I don't get shit for listening to Metal and everyone at my school knows that I do. Its not like Metal is discriminated against or universally hated, in fact a lot of preppy kids at my school have no idea what Metal even is.

Your school = the world

Not true. I get shit for it. Metalheads doesn't get messed with as much as they might, because metal is associated with violence, death, hate, etc. However, I've encountered what I would call discrimination - people who avoid or ignore you, stare, etc. As far as people not knowing what metal is, that's true...a lot of people don't. That doesn't stop them from forming opinions about it.

Just because Metal makes you think doesn't mean its superior.

What makes metal superior is that it's my favorite kind of music. It isn't inherently superior to anything else - just a matter of opinion.

Religion? Government? Doubtful. However, the degree to which the greater entertainment and media "establishment" have embraced and mercilessly peddled rap/hiphop, almost at times to the exclusion of all other popular musical genres(see MTV, etc.)is astonishing. The hiphop "culture" is also touted like no other, to include the mainstreaming of "ghetto" terminology, clothing/jewelry, etc.

Money.

Metal gets a doddering, incoherent Ozzy Ozborne and his corpulent, foul-mouthed offspring or Brett Michaels and a housefull of whores to represent our "culture" and music!?!

We also have Jack Black (sorta).

 

[OldScratch]

Hmmm. I recall the monopoly of radio channels in the U.S - a few years ago alot of dust was kicked up about it because they were seemingly plugging certain artists/tracks cynically.

Still, part of the blame has to lie with the masses willing to consume and enjoy this vacant music.

Oh yes, totally! A big part of the blame to be sure!!

On the radio payola deal, that actually made it to the courts and did, if I recall correctly involve some sizable fines, etc. Sony was implicated in this if memory serves...but I could be wrong. Either way, the industry at large is offensively incenstuous at almost every level.