Metalheads are Gifted - newspaper article

[Wyvern]

I doubt the intelligent metalhead is the norm,

Speak for yourself. I believe the obtuse kult tr00 moron is the exception in the metal community. Try and see "Metalhead: A Headbanger's Journey" it may open your eyes a bit.

NP: Skyclad - The Silver Cloud's Dark Lining

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

I'm sorry, you've lost me. I doubt the intelligent metalhead is the norm, therefore I'm hanging out with the wrong people? Why are you linking a vague sociological observation with personal relationships?

I'm sorry, you've lost me too. You said,

Well, I personally don't decide who I hang out with based on the individual's intelligence. That would be pretty shallow, I think.

I said I do choose my friends based on intelligence and proud of it. What's so hard to understand? In case you hadn't noticed, you and I are not discussing the meaning of the article.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

No, Trans-Siberian Outcast, I understood your position on that point fine. It was your comment that "you're hanging out with the wrong people" apparently based on my estimation of the intelligence of the average metalhead that confused me. And I'm aware that we weren't discussing the article in question; I was simply posting some additional observations about it that weren't directed specifically at you.

Speak for yourself. I believe the obtuse kult tr00 moron is the exception in the metal community. Try and see "Metalhead: A Headbanger's Journey" it may open your eyes a bit.

Yes, I've seen it, and I'm not sure why you bring it up. I recall one young female fan being interviewed that made me feel embarrassed to be associated with the genre - surely you have something else from the film in mind, but I'm not sure what.

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

No, Trans-Siberian Outcast, I understood your position on that point fine. It was your comment that "you're hanging out with the wrong people" apparently based on my estimation of the intelligence of the average metalhead that confused me.

Here's where our off-base, I bolded it. You're reading other's comments into my posts. I never considered your views on the article in my criticisms. And, if we really want to get down to the bare bones, what I did was question your basic social skills.

I'll repeat, when you start out a post with a sentence like,

Given the apparent inability of most people in this thread to correctly comprehend the article, I highly doubt the 'intelligent metalhead' is the norm.

You better expect to be called out. The only reason this didn't become a bitter flame-war was because I got here before Wyvern did. Your initial post was highly offensive in a direct manner, and you come across as pretentious.

I like you though, you're intelligent (hope this doesn't work against us being friends), well-spoken and you give a good debate.

Just make a few minor adjustments here and there and I think you could fit in just fine here at UMOS.

 

[Son of Evil]

I am actually a scientist by profession, so I consider myself to be intelligent.

I also love Progressive Metal...the so-called 'Thinking Man's Metal'.

But I agree that most metalheads are usually intelligent. It takes brains to make metal music AND to appreciate the music. There are exceptions, but I won't go there.

 

[Wyvern]

I am actually a scientist by profession, so I consider myself to be intelligent.

I also love Progressive Metal...the so-called 'Thinking Man's Metal'.

Cool man, what's your profession? I'm a chemist

Yes, I've seen it, and I'm not sure why you bring it up. I recall one young female fan being interviewed that made me feel embarrassed to be associated with the genre - surely you have something else from the film in mind, but I'm not sure what.

Well yes the interviews with Mayhem and Gorgoroth (and the whole Norwegian BM scene), those ARE embarrasing. But the rest included the young kids were fine by my standards considering age and cultural differences. I found an intelligent guy making an intelligent documentary, and talking to intelligent people in general terms. I loved Alice Cooper, Dio, Rob Zombie, Dee Snider, Lemmy views and damn even Alex Wbster and Barney Greenway contributed with clever stuff.

I guess that most of us and you had a different interpretation of the article that's all. And since we're intelligent people (at least in this forum) I'm sure we can reach an agreement

NP: Irish Coffee - I'm Lost

 

[carnut]

Well, looking at the "metal" people I know as friends and others I see at concerts and different forums, there is a good level of intelligence among Metal-fans. Not all of them have high educations and dito jobs, but all of them are capable of starting an intelligent conversation, and most of all, most are extremely friendly. Intelligence can't be measured by an IQ figure only I think. (not degrading the scientist around here though, big respect for what you guys achieved!!)

 

[carnut]

You bunch of freaking no English speaking guys like Wyvern and Carnut. I can remember when both of you struggled with English. Both of you really express yourself so very well in a language that is not your first language now. This board has been great for you two and others. It has even been great for me, because I often try to challenge the non-English first readers with my writing style. I don't use big words people won't understand, but rather use different ways of saying things. My English has improved almost as much as the posters here who are not English-first. The fact that we work so hard to communicate, not only shows our love for metal, but our intellectual abilities.

Thanx Bryant, being on an English forum indeed improved my English alot, although I think I make alot of mistakes (feel free to correct the stupid ones, I don't mind guys
I also do alot of reviews in English lately and I really feel the limitation of my English there.

 

[Son of Evil]

Cool man, what's your profession? I'm a chemist

I am a microbiologist. Currently working for a doctrate.

Anyway, in all seriousness, although each person's intelligence is his own, the fact that you need to be discerning to understand metal music is relative. I mean, there was a time when I thought Metallica's Enter Sandman was a very complex 'rock song' (trust me, VERY long ago).

Its the same with video games. Metal needs a perceptive listener, games hone your reflexes. This may help you with other tasks in real life, where skill is required (or maybe not), but they don't directly make you intelligent.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

You better expect to be called out. The only reason this didn't become a bitter flame-war was because I got here before Wyvern did. Your initial post was highly offensive in a direct manner, and you come across as pretentious.

My intention wasn't to offend, it was a simple observation - most people misinterpreted the article, including the thread starter who chose the title "Metalheads are Gifted", clearly misrepresenting the article's content. That a flame war was barely avoided doesn't bode well for the intelligent metalhead theory either , indeed it seems this site leans towards flame wars more heavily it than it does to intelligent discussion (hopefully this is not usually the case ). In any event, I meant the phrase "intelligent metalhead" as someone smarter than the norm in the way the children surveyed were 'gifted'. As evidenced by the film Wyvern pointed out, plenty fans and creators of metal are of perfectly average intelligence.

It is interesting whenever any sort of evidence of correlation between musical preference and intelligence surfaces, but I think the metal fan (who is so often stereotyped as a moron) is a tad quick to jump on anything that on the surface appears to favour them. After all, the article does suggest that intelligent children prefer rock and pop music to metal.

 

[Wyvern]

As evidenced by the film Wyvern pointed out, plenty fans and creators of metal are of perfectly average intelligence.

Actually we lean towards intelligent discussion, but we are also rough on newbies, specially when the way they enter doesn't seems very amicable

Don't worry, you basically survived boot camp. If you stuck awhile around you'll notice we are actually nice people...most of the time

NP: Manigance - 'Ange Ou Demon'

 

[Bryant]

Why not? 1,000 is enough to get a nice bell curve, and it doesn't sound like they were working with a huge population.

It doesn't really state in the article that the students listen to metal because of any inherent intelligence in the music, but because of its stress relieving qualities (i.e. loud, fast and angry). Look at the examples listed: Slipknot, In Flames, Dragonforce - they are basically listening to the most popular bands in the genre, not the ones that could be considered more intellectual than your average pop music selection by any great margin. The higher level of musical complexity in some of the selections (Tool, Dragonforce) is about the only indication of the students choosing the music based on their (or its) intelligence, but as such a reason isn't mentioned drawing this conclusion would be quite speculative. It is also important to note that these gifted children weren't exactly picking metal with overwhelming frequency - Rock, R&B and pop were *all* more popular than metal among them. Should we conclude that metal is less intelligent than these other genres because of this study? I think not, the article merely attempts to offer an explanation as to why *some* gifted kids listen to metal: because they have "lower self-esteem and more difficulties in family relationships and friendships."

I don't disagree with your synopsis, but I was trying to approach it from different angles. I personally think the metal-head population has more artistic and intellectual fans, percentage wise than fans of most other genres. Maybe that is a biased opinion, but it is what I believe. I also think metal-heads tend to be more expressive and individualistic.
Speaking of individualistic...... maybe that explains some of the problems the youngsters have with having good relations with peers and family. The self-esteem issue is merely a side effect due to the fact that many others can't come up to their level of self expression. It makes sense to me.


Bryant

 

[Bryant]

Again, you're hanging out with the wrong people. If choosing my friends based on intelligence makes me shallow, then shallow shall I be. I can live with that. Because I have a tight circle of friends that I wouldn't trade for my own pacific island.

I hate to bust your chops on this one TSO, but I think it is necessary.......

"Intelligence" can mean different things to different people. Would all of your friends do well on some standardized IQ test ? I think many of mine would, but some may prove to be quite average on the standardized test I have taken here in the US. An individual is just that.... an individual, and each have their own unique offering to the world. Some certainly have more to offer than others, but life experiences often have as much to do with someone's ability to relate to others and to react positively to different circumstances as pure cognitive ability.


Bryant

 

[Bryant]

Thanx Bryant, being on an English forum indeed improved my English alot, although I think I make alot of mistakes (feel free to correct the stupid ones, I don't mind guys
I also do alot of reviews in English lately and I really feel the limitation of my English there.

Ok I will do so...... don't say "alot." Use "quite a bit" instead. You have picked up some bad English there. Other than that, I think you are doing great my friend.


Bryant

 

[Bryant]

Well, looking at the "metal" people I know as friends and others I see at concerts and different forums, there is a good level of intelligence among Metal-fans. Not all of them have high educations and dito jobs, but all of them are capable of starting an intelligent conversation, and most of all, most are extremely friendly. Intelligence can't be measured by an IQ figure only I think. (not degrading the scientist around here though, big respect for what you guys achieved!!)

We think much alike my friend. I hadn't made it to your post when I replied to another. My apologies, because I said the same thing you did, though I worded it in a different way.


I will say this............ I would love to take credit for it, but I can't..........


"Success is not determined by how others see you, but by how you see yourself. "

I think that is not only success in business etc. but success in life. That is one of the best phrases I have ever heard in my life.


Bryant

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

My intention wasn't to offend, it was a simple observation - most people misinterpreted the article, including the thread starter who chose the title "Metalheads are Gifted", clearly misrepresenting the article's content.

Perhaps you could have worded your post less-offensively, and it never would have become an issue. Something like, "I interpret the article different than most of you.." instead of "Given the apparent inability of most people in this thread to correctly comprehend the article..." Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it.

"Intelligence" can mean different things to different people. Would all of your friends do well on some standardized IQ test ? I think many of mine would, but some may prove to be quite average on the standardized test I have taken here in the US. An individual is just that.... an individual, and each have their own unique offering to the world. Some certainly have more to offer than others, but life experiences often have as much to do with someone's ability to relate to others and to react positively to different circumstances as pure cognitive ability.

Yup, I understand that Bryant, and never was guaging the intelligence level of my friends and I on IQ alone (although the article clearly represented it that way). Intelligence is soooo much more than IQ or book smarts. It's everything, from communication skills, to treating people fairly, to making smart decisions in life, etc.

 

[Imp!]

I take it nobody read the article...

Asked for their favourite type of music, 39 per cent said rock, 18 per cent R&B and 14 per cent pop. Six per cent said heavy metal and a third rated it in their top five genres.

It almost seems like they're trying to prove how stupid metal heads are with these numbers...

Hold the banner up high guys, SIX percent of smart people think metal is a top 5 genre! Hooray!

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

Hold the banner up high guys, SIX percent of smart people think metal is a top 5 genre! Hooray!

Actually 6% listed metal as their favorite, 33% rated it in their top five genres. I think that's a pretty fair number, considering rock, pop, and R&B are much more represented in the media.

 

[Imp!]

I'd like to see you copy and paste your figure, as I tend to believe the statistic I copy and pasted directly from the article from the link provided.

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

I'd like to see you copy and paste your figure, as I tend to believe the statistic I copy and pasted directly from the article from the link provided.

Look carefully (I bolded it for you):

Asked for their favourite type of music, 39 per cent said rock, 18 per cent R&B and 14 per cent pop. Six per cent said heavy metal and a third rated it in their top five genres.