Mike for the Shredder award?

i could try putting this nicely but...

"I being a 2 year old player can play your solos as good as you do"

keep in mind that I was a 1 yr old player when I recorded those videos, which are in my opinion nicely played in spite of what you have to say ("you don't have the attitude" doesn't count as a good review), and I never claimed 'those' videos to be as good as Mikael's playing, they were nearly not rehearsed at all and recorded in only one or two takes. I posted them just to give people an idea that playing Opeth solos aren't that difficult and a 1 year old player can capture most of the essence of it, not that these videos are as good as Mike's playing. I'm sure NOW if I tried for some time I'd get them much better than I did at the time.

One more point, I am not in a studio and I don't have the time to do a hundred takes to get a perfect sounding solo, unlike Opeth guitarists whose jobs are to do that. How does Mike or Peter play those solos live? Are they really infinitely better than what I played, in spite of the fact that they have been playing those solos every two or three nights for years? I doubt it.
 
keep in mind that I was a 1 yr old player when I recorded those videos, which are in my opinion nicely played in spite of what you have to say, and I never claimed 'those' videos to be as good as Mikael's playing, they were nearly not rehearsed at all and recorded in only one or two takes. I posted them just to give people an idea that playing Opeth solos aren't that difficult and a 1 year old player can capture most of the essence of it, not that these videos are as good as Mike's playing. I'm sure NOW if I tried for some time I'd get them much better than I did at the time.

One more point, I am not in a studio and I don't have the time to do a hundred takes to get a perfect sounding solo, unlike Opeth guitarists whose jobs are to do that. How does Mike or Peter play those solos live? Are they really infinitely better than what I played, in spite of the fact that they have been playing those solos every two or three nights for years? I doubt it.

Post a video of your current playing ability then so we can compare.
You make bold claims and come across as kinda arrogant.

You say Mikael are sloppy live and that if you were to play them in a studio you would be as good?
 
No, did I say that? Mikael performs superbly live, but surely not as good as in the studio. If my playing is going to be compared to something, it shouldn't be the studio, it should be the live version, that was my point.

I think my claims have somewhat distorted my real point in comparing my soloing with Mike's. The point was that I am no way a pro, but still I can play Opeth solos with most of the essence, and if I can do it Herman Li would have no problems in doing that. My real point was that Herman Li can play Mike's solos just in the way Mike does, because even I can do that.

I don't see myself as an extraordinarily talented guitar player, that isn't the point. Point is; Opeth solos take no extraordinary guitar player to reproduce.

But of course, everyone has to perceive the posts using their assholes, not their brains, so I ended up having said "I AM AN AWESOME GUITAR PLAYER AND IVE BEEN PLAYING JUST FOR 2 YRS IM AS GOOD AS MIKE, I WILL TAKE OVER THE UNIVERSE"... of course.
 
But of course, everyone has to perceive the posts using their assholes, not their brains, so I ended up having said "I AM AN AWESOME GUITAR PLAYER AND IVE BEEN PLAYING JUST FOR 2 YRS IM AS GOOD AS MIKE, I WILL TAKE OVER THE UNIVERSE"... of course.

well, u did say "I being a 2 year old player can play your solos as good as you do". if u remove the obvious exageration in "I AM AN AWESOME GUITAR PLAYER AND IVE BEEN PLAYING JUST FOR 2 YRS IM AS GOOD AS MIKE, I WILL TAKE OVER THE UNIVERSE", that is pretty much what you get.
 
bah, when you take the post out of a context with a tweezer, then I can make anyone have said anything. that practice is best left for the press, not people arguing about something on a board.
 
No, did I say that? Mikael performs superbly live, but surely not as good as in the studio. If my playing is going to be compared to something, it shouldn't be the studio, it should be the live version, that was my point.

I think my claims have somewhat distorted my real point in comparing my soloing with Mike's. The point was that I am no way a pro, but still I can play Opeth solos with most of the essence, and if I can do it Herman Li would have no problems in doing that. My real point was that Herman Li can play Mike's solos just in the way Mike does, because even I can do that.

I don't see myself as an extraordinarily talented guitar player, that isn't the point. Point is; Opeth solos take no extraordinary guitar player to reproduce.

But of course, everyone has to perceive the posts using their assholes, not their brains, so I ended up having said "I AM AN AWESOME GUITAR PLAYER AND IVE BEEN PLAYING JUST FOR 2 YRS IM AS GOOD AS MIKE, I WILL TAKE OVER THE UNIVERSE"... of course.

Music isn't about merely reproducing notes. It's in your fingertips and in the artistic part of your brain. You will surely become a good player but if you'll develop Mike's sense of class and tastefulness I can't say yet.

And Herman Li can't play "just the way Mike does". You have to develop your musical ear to know the difference.
 
keep in mind that I was a 1 yr old player when I recorded those videos, which are in my opinion nicely played in spite of what you have to say ("you don't have the attitude" doesn't count as a good review), and I never claimed 'those' videos to be as good as Mikael's playing, they were nearly not rehearsed at all and recorded in only one or two takes. I posted them just to give people an idea that playing Opeth solos aren't that difficult and a 1 year old player can capture most of the essence of it, not that these videos are as good as Mike's playing. I'm sure NOW if I tried for some time I'd get them much better than I did at the time.

One more point, I am not in a studio and I don't have the time to do a hundred takes to get a perfect sounding solo, unlike Opeth guitarists whose jobs are to do that. How does Mike or Peter play those solos live? Are they really infinitely better than what I played, in spite of the fact that they have been playing those solos every two or three nights for years? I doubt it.

Holy shit, you are stupid.

YES, Pete and Mike own your ass any day.

You posted those incredibly shitty videos as if they were as good as Mikael's solos. How good you are now and how good you were then doesn't matter, you think you can play as well as mikael when you clearly can't.

If you are sloppy, you are sloppy. Multiple takes doesn't matter, that's just not how it works. Maybe Mike made a mistake or wasn't completely satisfied so he did it again.

And uh, the versions you hear on the album were probably written maybe a few days prior, maybe the same day. I don't know how Opeth works, but your comparison between you and Mike doesn't really work. Album version of the solo is recorded in one day, yours is too.

And you want me to define things more clearly? Well, for one thing, vibrato is not shaking a note back and forth. It's evenly fluctuating a note. You didn't do that.

By "you don't have the attitude" i mean that you played it as if you were afraid of scratching up your guitar or something. When you should have just wailed on the note and put loads of vibrato on it, and all that stuff, you just simply plucked it.

Weak pick attacks means just that, you played every note the same. Which makes it sound as if you don't really know how the song goes, or haven't really heard it before.

When you are feeling the music, you do all this stuff subconsciously. You clearly weren't.

You aren't listening to how Mike is playing, you are just reading it off the tab! That is what I'm trying to say. The guitar is such an expressive instrument, and there are so many nuances to playing it. You can lay behind the beat, and you can play in front of it. You can play a note hard, and you can play it soft. You can add subtle vibrato to it, you can slide into it, need i go on? When you ignore all the nuances you just end up sounding like a midi file. That is why I'm critizing your playing. You don't sound like you know what you're doing. What you take into account is what string, and what fret.
 
please just listen to something played by Jan Johansson. then you might get this whole thing about expertise and fingertip feeling.

even if he's playing the piano.
 
Mexicola: You are repeating what I said. I said beforehand that being a musician and playing the guitar is completely different. Playing a guitar is about your motor functions in your brain, while the other has nothing with motor functions at all.

Holy shit, you are stupid.

YES, Pete and Mike own your ass any day.

You posted those incredibly shitty videos as if they were as good as Mikael's solos. How good you are now and how good you were then doesn't matter, you think you can play as well as mikael when you clearly can't.

If you are sloppy, you are sloppy. Multiple takes doesn't matter, that's just not how it works. Maybe Mike made a mistake or wasn't completely satisfied so he did it again.

And uh, the versions you hear on the album were probably written maybe a few days prior, maybe the same day. I don't know how Opeth works, but your comparison between you and Mike doesn't really work. Album version of the solo is recorded in one day, yours is too.

And you want me to define things more clearly? Well, for one thing, vibrato is not shaking a note back and forth. It's evenly fluctuating a note. You didn't do that.

By "you don't have the attitude" i mean that you played it as if you were afraid of scratching up your guitar or something. When you should have just wailed on the note and put loads of vibrato on it, and all that stuff, you just simply plucked it.

Weak pick attacks means just that, you played every note the same. Which makes it sound as if you don't really know how the song goes, or haven't really heard it before.

When you are feeling the music, you do all this stuff subconsciously. You clearly weren't.

You aren't listening to how Mike is playing, you are just reading it off the tab! That is what I'm trying to say. The guitar is such an expressive instrument, and there are so many nuances to playing it. You can lay behind the beat, and you can play in front of it. You can play a note hard, and you can play it soft. You can add subtle vibrato to it, you can slide into it, need i go on? When you ignore all the nuances you just end up sounding like a midi file. That is why I'm critizing your playing. You don't sound like you know what you're doing. What you take into account is what string, and what fret.

You are so unbelievably stupid that I need to spoon feed you the answers, looks like you can't get them off the table yourself. Here we go!

"YES, Pete and Mike own your ass any day."

REALLY! Here I was beginning to think that playing the guitar for 2 years had made me better than a person who has spent his entire life playing the guitar and not just that but is renowned worldwide for having written the best albums in the world for decades! Goodbye cruel world.

"You posted those incredibly shitty videos as if they were as good as Mikael's solos. How good you are now and how good you were then doesn't matter, you think you can play as well as mikael when you clearly can't."

I can't believe you said that. I never said they were as good as Mike's, and I said that again and again. And, it would take only an incredible moron to say that those videos are incredibly shitty. No, how good I am now and how good I was then DO matter, when you take into account that when I said I could play Opeth solos very well AT THE MOMENT.

"Well, for one thing, vibrato is not shaking a note back and forth. It's evenly fluctuating a note. You didn't do that. "

You're talking as if there is only one vibrato in the whole three solos I played. You need to tell me which moments so that I know what you're talking about. And no, vibrato is not "evenly" fluctuating a note every time. There are times when an uneven vibrato fits much better.

"By "you don't have the attitude" i mean that you played it as if you were afraid of scratching up your guitar or something. When you should have just wailed on the note and put loads of vibrato on it, and all that stuff, you just simply plucked it."

Wow, that vibrato thing is something, then! Gives someone an attitude.

"Weak pick attacks means just that, you played every note the same"

or maybe the recording isn't clear enough to hear the subtler db differences between the notes.

"When you are feeling the music, you do all this stuff subconsciously. You clearly weren't."

yeah, I am expected to do everything subconsciously by just feeling the music. Feeling the music is the shit... if you can feel, you are expected to do everything perfect regardless of how long you have been playing.
 
So this award is supposed to honor the best "shredder"
Maybe I'm looking a bit too far into this (or maybe this is too obvious to be discussed?), but what the fuck does the verb "to shred" really mean in this context? A lot of the debate in this thread could probably be handled by defining this term.
Does it imply speed and technical skill? Heaviness? Shouldn't it take song-writing into account or something?
If shredding is simply defined by fluency and speed in technicality, then no, Mike shouldn't win.
But if shredder is synonymous with guitar-musician, then I'm not so sure. If the latter is the case, the difficulty of reproducing Mike's work shouldn't be significant. Musical complexity doesn't always equal musical integrity :)
 
REALLY! Here I was beginning to think that playing the guitar for 2 years had made me better than a person who has spent his entire life playing the guitar and not just that but is renowned worldwide for having written the best albums in the world for decades! Goodbye cruel world.



I'm not gonna argue against you on this, as i don't really know what you mean, and it's not he main issue.

I can't believe you said that. I never said they were as good as Mike's, and I said that again and again. And, it would take only an incredible moron to say that those videos are incredibly shitty. No, how good I am now and how good I was then DO matter, when you take into account that when I said I could play Opeth solos very well AT THE MOMENT.


YOU CANT PLAY OPETH SOLOS VERY WELL!

You're talking as if there is only one vibrato in the whole three solos I played. You need to tell me which moments so that I know what you're talking about. And no, vibrato is not "evenly" fluctuating a note every time. There are times when an uneven vibrato fits much better.

ALL of your vibrato's were crap. It's about how you do it, and you do it the same every time. Sure, you could somehow fuck it up once (unlikely as it is ingrained in your muscle memory), but you did it all the time. Vibrato is easy to do (like crap), but hard to do well (Mike, BB King, Hendrix, Guthrie Govan, Steve Vai).

And yes, an uneven vibrato MIGHT sound good in some cases, but an uneven vibrato sounds out of tune. You definately want to avoid an uneven vibrato. Sure you don't mean wide? Wide is still even.


Wow, that vibrato thing is something, then! Gives someone an attitude.

First of all: Yes, that vibrato really is something. It is a great effect that can make a solo great (mike) or just horrible (you).
Second of All: No, it doesn't give you an attitude. You do it when you have an attitude. I said attitude because metal is all about attitude.

Sarcasm doesn't make your argument any more relevant by the way.

"Weak pick attacks means just that, you played every note the same"

or maybe the recording isn't clear enough to hear the subtler db differences between the notes.

No, no no no! You are missing the point! It is NOT the recording, I've seen videos with worse quality and they've done it just fine.

It is you not having the "attitude" and "feeling". It's vague and sounds cheesy, yeah I agree. But I have no other way of describing it.


yeah, I am expected to do everything subconsciously by just feeling the music. Feeling the music is the shit... if you can feel, you are expected to do everything perfect regardless of how long you have been playing.

Missing the point again. When you are feeling it, and you know how you want it to sound, you play like it.

You clearly just dont GET IT! You responded to all my arguments but the main one. You sound like you don't listen to the music, and that you sound like you play directly from tab without any emotion or feeling. THAT is what I am trying to say, but it seems like you ignore it.

I have trouble expressing my self in english, so sorry.
 
Yep, same here.
They should just rename all "Shredder" awards to "Petrucci" awards and make polls as to who comes closest to him.

Best post I have seen for a long time:headbang:


As for the feeling guys, if some pro guy (lets say Herman Li or John Petrucci or Michael Angelo Batio or even a decent good guitar player, i.e. guys taking guitar idol awards) tries to imitate a solo of Mikael for 10 times and compare them to Mikael's playing ten times; without knowing who's playing which, then I bet you wont be able to tell the difference all the time even if I beat you with a wooden club (preferably wet)..:rolleyes:
 
Think of it like this:

The human voice is very expressive. You can whisper and you can shout, growl, sing high, sing low, crack your voice, scream like Kurt Cobain did in Hairspray Queen. Anything!

Listen to the Nirvana's version of Where did you sleep last night. Imagine if Kurt didn't scream his heart out on the last verse, imagine that he instead just spoke the lyrics.



It would have sucked ass, really.

You are speaking the lyrics, not screaming them when you need to. Not screaming, mumbling, growling, angelically singing, belting out, and so on when you need to. You are simply speaking them.
 
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I'm not gonna argue against you on this, as i don't really know what you mean, and it's not he main issue.




YOU CANT PLAY OPETH SOLOS VERY WELL!



ALL of your vibrato's were crap. It's about how you do it, and you do it the same every time. Sure, you could somehow fuck it up once (unlikely as it is ingrained in your muscle memory), but you did it all the time. Vibrato is easy to do (like crap), but hard to do well (Mike, BB King, Hendrix, Guthrie Govan, Steve Vai).

And yes, an uneven vibrato MIGHT sound good in some cases, but an uneven vibrato sounds out of tune. You definately want to avoid an uneven vibrato. Sure you don't mean wide? Wide is still even.




First of all: Yes, that vibrato really is something. It is a great effect that can make a solo great (mike) or just horrible (you).
Second of All: No, it doesn't give you an attitude. You do it when you have an attitude. I said attitude because metal is all about attitude.

Sarcasm doesn't make your argument any more relevant by the way.



No, no no no! You are missing the point! It is NOT the recording, I've seen videos with worse quality and they've done it just fine.

It is you not having the "attitude" and "feeling". It's vague and sounds cheesy, yeah I agree. But I have no other way of describing it.




Missing the point again. When you are feeling it, and you know how you want it to sound, you play like it.

You clearly just dont GET IT! You responded to all my arguments but the main one. You sound like you don't listen to the music, and that you sound like you play directly from tab without any emotion or feeling. THAT is what I am trying to say, but it seems like you ignore it.

I have trouble expressing my self in english, so sorry.


"YOU CANT PLAY OPETH SOLOS VERY WELL!"

Four times didn't do the trick, let me make it five and maybe CAPS IS GONNA HELP YOU UNDERSTAND THAT I CAN'T PLAY THEM PERFECTLY IN THOSE VIDEOS WHICH WERE TAKEN ONE YEAR AGO AS AN INDICATOR OF I COULD PLAY OPETH SOLOS FAIRLY ACCURATELY EVEN BY THEN.

About the vibratos: My "uneven" meant unevenly timed. I won't insist that my vibratos were perfect there.

"I said attitude because metal is all about attitude."

What the fuck are you talking about? Those super vibrato guys you wrote, were all they metal guitarists? Fuck metal, who cares about what metal is all about?

"You clearly just dont GET IT! You responded to all my arguments but the main one. You sound like you don't listen to the music, and that you sound like you play directly from tab without any emotion or feeling."

I don't respond to that statements of yours, because they're vague and don't mean anything like I said in my reply to your first post. All those "pick attacks", vibratos and stuff are the issues you brought to explain WHY YOU THOUGHT I was playing without feelings, right? So I have responded to the feelings thing by my answers to those specific issues. Can't respond to "You play without emotion or feeling" by something more than "I don't think so" beacuse "feelings" are overly subjective, right?

Although you're clearly an idiot for calling those videos "incredibly shitty", I like the way you're arguing, keep this shit up, I haven't been in any forum dramas lately :D
 
Four times didn't do the trick, let me make it five and maybe CAPS IS GONNA HELP YOU UNDERSTAND THAT I CAN'T PLAY THEM PERFECTLY IN THOSE VIDEOS WHICH WERE TAKEN ONE YEAR AGO AS AN INDICATOR OF I COULD PLAY OPETH SOLOS FAIRLY ACCURATELY EVEN BY THEN.

No, you missed out on all the nuances. Check out my other post with the Kurt arguement. You got the notes right, but that was pretty much it.

About the vibratos: My "uneven" meant unevenly timed. I won't insist that my vibratos were perfect there.

Alright, I'll give you that one. Vibratos are hard to get right, I certainly am not
satisfied with mine.

What the fuck are you talking about? Those super vibrato guys you wrote, were all they metal guitarists? Fuck metal, who cares about what metal is all about?

Opeth is metal, aren't they? :heh:
But no, forget about the vibrato. Don't get too caught up with vibrato, think of it rather as feeling and stuff. You still don't get it and it is probably partially my fault for not explaining it well enough. I think I did a good job with the Kurt argument though.


I don't respond to that statements of yours, because they're vague and don't mean anything like I said in my reply to your first post. All those "pick attacks", vibratos and stuff are the issues you brought to explain WHY YOU THOUGHT I was playing without feelings, right? So I have responded to the feelings thing by my answers to those specific issues. Can't respond to "You play without emotion or feeling" by something more than "I don't think so" beacuse "feelings" are overly subjective, right?

You put in pick attacks in quotes, why? they are actually called that, that little "chk" sound you get when you pick with a pick.
Feelings are indeed subjective. But not check out my other post. What i mean is you don't scream when you need to scream, and you don't whisper when you need to whisper.

Although you're clearly an idiot for calling those videos "incredibly shitty", I like the way you're arguing, keep this shit up, I haven't been in any forum dramas lately :D

Arrogancy ahoy!
 
C-C-COMBO breaker!!!!!

Anyway, just wanted to say that despite Petrucci's "shrediness" the solo in "A change of seasons" (around 15 min mark - afer "I won't let them push me away") is one of those solos that gives me goosebumps EVERY TIME I hear it. Talk about emotions in a solo....

That's it...go on....:p
 
It's fun to see Annihilat0r defending himself this way. Let's make the point.

Annihilator posted some video (made after one-year playing guitar) where he could play some Opeth solos, striking the right notes, but without the feeling and the vibe that it requires to make it "as good as you (Mikael) do". On this point, Annihilator is totally wrong, and his vibratos are indeed not excellent. You can easily differentiate someone who has experiences and someone who doesn't. It's just so many factors that's it's easy to see/hear. There's an ease with the guitar, like if it was a woman and the guitarist was fucking her. You (Annihilator) are still searching for the hole. Other than that, about the thing with "other good guitarist could easily play Mikael's stuff", I say NO, just because Mikael has his own style. It would be even easier to make a distinction (reply to HemeHaci) if you were repeating it a lot of time. Somethings are too precise to be reproduced, but I'm not saying it's impossible. Just saying you gotta be incredibly good (not necesserly a shredder) to be able to do that.

My conlusion : Yeah, Annihilat0r, those videos were great for a beginner, but nothing more. There's lot more to learn and stop pretending you are way better than this today. You still have nothing to be proud of, but the way you're talking, it seems like you are already very fucking talented. Modesty. Get more experience first. And yes, it's a matter of time.
 
"stop pretending you are way better than this today."

Your source of information regarding this sentence? And no Fox news, they are fucking biased