Mike The New Beethoven?

[Speak]

Ok. This is ridiculous.

The classical composers composed ENTIRE SYMPHONIES for ENTIRE ORCHESTRAS (we're talking, what... maybe 90 musicians here), usually with just a piano, a piece of paper, and a pen. Beethoven did it deaf, to boot. Let's also not forget that you pretty much had to nail everything first time - you can't write out 90 scores, go to your local orchestra and tell them to play it, then tweak it over and over again. You had to get the score right pretty much first time.

Now. I'm not even a fan of classical music. I'm a big fan of Opeth, and am starting to wonder how and why the fuck Opeth is going from being a BAND to a WAY OF LIFE for some people. Opeth is a good band, but nothing they have done even begins to touch the feats of musical prowess that other musicians have reached. Note, before the Opeth fanboys come out and say that "I'M OBVIOUSLY NOT LISTENING HARD ENOUGH LOLZ", sit down and actually listen to at least one symphony. Even if you hate the music, realise that ONE MAN put EVERYTHING in that together. Everything. Listen to how much is going on, how one person has co-ordinated over 90 instruments into a single body of music.

Then come back and type your reply.

 

[Longinus]

Speak makes a good point there. Don't you think though that, if Gildenlöw and Akerfeldt lived in those classical times, they would've been able to do the same?

Especially Gildenlöw. Hey, he wrote a 14 piece (actually a bit more) album

 

[the_drip]

No I don't think they could have. Mikael has proffessed his own naivety when it comes to Music Theory and all the other assets necessary for composing a symphony. He simply figures out riffs...then shows them to the othe rband members.

If Mikael had been around back then...he'd most likely be a poet, his lyrics are the strongest part of OPeth in many ways.

Speak has his head screwed on straight. All you need to do is listen to an Entire 4 movement symphony....there is so much going on, so many different sounds and developments..they never get boring, and there is so much goddamned emotion and energy put forth into the music, it really is amazing.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

Kurt Cobain pretentious? Hence he killed himself..? I find that contradictive (is that a word?) .

"contradictory"

 

[Longinus]

Yes..contradictory!

>He simply figures out riffs...then shows them to the othe rband members.
<

I thought it was common knowledge he just does this because he actually likes it that way?

 

[The Night And The Silent Water]

Metal takes influences from everywhere, stating that it takes traits from classical music is no different than any other band in the world... besides, beethoven only started out as classical, and became romantic towards the end (after he went deaf and became more abstract). Music would not be the same without this progression. Stating that it could only be a way to legitimize the genre is stupid, all music in the C20th came directly from the music in the 19th etc etc.

Also, if any musical talent were picked up in children in that time, they were taught music theory strictly and comprehensively to be able to make such a living, so that fact that mike doesnt have the music knowledge to compete back then makes no odds, because he wouldve been taught as it was common practice. Also, symphonies are not hard, all you need is two hands, a few main themes and some knowledge of the tempo and names of the movements and hey presto, a symphony. you forget that most of the time, the other 88 musicians are just playing accompaniment and chords

 

[gatedropper]

Metal takes influences from everywhere, stating that it takes traits from classical music is no different than any other band in the world... besides, beethoven only started out as classical, and became romantic towards the end (after he went deaf and became more abstract). Music would not be the same without this progression. Stating that it could only be a way to legitimize the genre is stupid, all music in the C20th came directly from the music in the 19th etc etc.

Also, if any musical talent were picked up in children in that time, they were taught music theory strictly and comprehensively to be able to make such a living, so that fact that mike doesnt have the music knowledge to compete back then makes no odds, because he wouldve been taught as it was common practice. Also, symphonies are not hard, all you need is two hands, a few main themes and some knowledge of the tempo and names of the movements and hey presto, a symphony

You had me up till this. If symphonies were easy, then everyone would
be doing them.
Symphonies are very very hard and you have to be talented and very
disiciplined.

 

[Ermz]

If Mikael had been around back then...he'd most likely be a poet, his lyrics are the strongest part of OPeth in many ways.

I think Mike would disagree with that.

... 'I've never seen myself as a great lyricist...'

Yet, I'll agree with the poet thing. He seems to seek music that is experimental, different or just solely inspired by states of being as opposed to some form of classical disciplines. I don't think classical compositions would be his thing.

 

[Jon Snow]

^ Nice sig. I hope her career is over.

 

[the_drip]

Yeah...neither did the guys back then. Being Humble goes a long way.


the genres in the Classical work differently than those in Metal...they're time oriented. Yes, Beethoven brought about the end of the 'actual' classical period and invoked the romantic period that lasted most of the 19th century, which just meant the music got more complex with more rebellious use of harmony and other such musical ideas...it has alot to do with what was going on in the world at the time as well (revolutions, the fall of monarchies....Napoleon....etc)...

it goes,

Baroque- Bach, Vivaldi
Classical- Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven
Romantic- Beethoven, Schubert, Wagner, Verdi, Chopin
Impressionism- Debussy
Expressionism- Schoenburg, Webern

and on and on....classical style music today has gotten so weird...with serialism, minimalism and chance that it's really hard to gauge whether or not it's being very influential on anythign at all. Up until the mid 20th century however, classical music made all the progress....jazz, and rock are becoming frontrunners however in a slightly dumbed-down society.

 

[KennonKun]

Nevermind was the greatest thing underground has ever produced. After Kurt killed himself, everyone started listening to Nirvana...

This doesn't necessarily prove, disprove, or really have anything to do with what you just said, but I have an Obituary show (07/31/92) on tape where the Nevermind album is being played on the soundboard. *shrug*

 

[reddd]

with all the respect but being a good composer, as he is, Mike is still nobody compared to Beethoven. and belive me I know. I am huge classical music freak and I consider Opeth to be the best metal band ever, so I guess my judgment is pretty fair.

there are many works by Beethoven that alone are worth more than all the music Mike will ever write. (and Beethoven Complete Edition, which is still far fromm living up to its name, counts almost 90 cds)

 

[Nico]

So you're a classical music fan and you think Opeth are better than Burzum?

Odd...

 

[reddd]

besides, beethoven only started out as classical, and became romantic towards the end (after he went deaf and became more abstract). etc.

read your encylopedia again or buy a new one.

Also, symphonies are not hard, all you need is two hands, a few main themes and some knowledge of the tempo and names of the movements and hey presto, a symphony. you forget that most of the time, the other 88 musicians are just playing accompaniment and chords

yeah right. you know better.
and piano concertos are even simpler.
there are more notes in an average piano concerto than Mike will ever put to a tape in his life.

 

[reddd]

So you're a classical music fan and you think Opeth are better than Burzum?

Odd...

first of all what's that's about Burzum coming close to classical music (I mean obviously in form not in quality)?
I have heard two of his albums and on one he was coming close to black metal wankery on the second he was coming close to some cheap electronic music wankery while on both he was embarrassing himself with nearly zero compositional skills (guess it was delivered).

 

[Nico]

Smoke a joint and listen to Hvis Lyset Tar Oss.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

^but the main point is, smoke a joint

 

[Shadows Skulk]

Steven Wilson is Farinelli.

 

[Necramentia]

and he eats farafalle.

 

[naboo]

Heh, I saw this thread on another forum.

There really is no comparison, but both are geniuses.