Mixing & Mastering RATES

[Ermz]

Only thing that's left on my mind on the subject is that the whole undercutting stuff has at least one (sometimes) positive little aspect:
They act as a shit filter for the more serious guys.
Obviously also real work gets filtered, but there's a good chance that some of the guys who ran to the bro in the basement are people a pro wouldn't want to work with anyway.

That's the way I see it.

Partially, I want to applaud these guys, because they segregate the market neatly. You end up with a category of bands looking for the lowest price, and another category of bands looking for the best service.

I've come to really value anything that helps avoid wasting time when it comes to interactions with potential clients. After you start getting solid bookings, and a regular amount of work, the last thing you want to be dealing with is people somehow demanding that your schedule magically open up for them next week, and take 1/4th the pay to meet minimum wage. The amount of time-wasters in the industry is gargantuan. I've even had individuals ask me to mix a few-second snippet of their song for them, but only using plug-ins, so that they could replicate those settings on their end, and use it to finish the project. Seriously - I'm not joking.

We've had this discussion before, where the undercutting guys eventually 'come of age', realize that to fund an actual studio needs a bit more than $40 per day. Unfortunately when they come to this realization the next generation of undercutters are already boring their way into the market, charging even less than the previous generation did.

This has a way of really negatively impacting the entry-level end of the market, but for the most part the high-mid and high sectors will remain unaffected. If you hope to make engineering a full-time profession, then these are the sectors you need to aim for.

 

[Headof75]

This thread has touched a lot of nerves, but there is an obvious solution. Perhaps people should stop using the Gear For Sale sub-forum to advertise their businesses/services instead of gear for sale?

 

[OneDaySky]

OP has been edited. Think my rates are now more reasonable.

 

[OneDaySky]

I have one question.
Onedaysky said he likes editing guitars and tightening up performances
For me its not a part of the mixing job. I will just replace a hit here and there or tune some vocals here and there when I am hired for mixing.
But isn't the editing part of the tracking guys?
Do the other guys also edit the performance when they only do the mix?

Depends on your workflow, editing is apart of the Tracking stage but not exclusively. attention to detail can only be done in post pro/mixing unless you willing to keep the muso waiting between takes. Imagine editing live drums with 8 - 14 tracks during tracking? Sounds dodge to me!

 

[kass]

I think that's work that would be done by people allready working their.
If the studio owner is alone than it's stuff he had to do himself, if the intern wasnt there.
Can't imagine anyone beeing hired and paid to do the intern-stuff alone.
Assistents on the other hand (from what I heared so far) also do that kind of stuff, but a lot more too, and have more responsibility in general.

You guys are making this too complicated. Of course they wouldnt hire someone to wrap a cable. The cable would be wrapped by someone already there. This person (paid tech, studio owner, etc) still has to be paid for the time it took to wrap the cable/make coffee/clean up/whatever.

This is all specifics...so who cares? The principle is what matters.

 

[Skinny Viking]

just a thought ...

maybe you should consider changing your "EP/Album Package" deals from a flat rate to just another price break

for instance you have for mixing song = $70, EP (3-6 songs) = $60 and then a flat rate for a full album of 7-12 songs. Maybe you should just change that to like $50. Its still a price break for having more work from the client but it kinda makes more sense than a flat rate of $330

at your current pricing:

6 song EP = $360
7 song "album" = $330

now if they come to you with 12 songs, you'll be charging them $330 instead of $720 at the "EP" rate. Essentially, they'll be getting a 2nd EP out of you for free

Now if you charged $50 as your album rate

6 song EP = $360
7 song album = $350 so you're kinda giving away a song here but most people would be doing between 8-12 songs I think for an album. That being the case ...

8 - 12 song album = $400 - $600 which is still really fucking reasonable but you're not shooting yourself in the foot, or anyone else for that matter

just something to consider

 

[kass]

A-FUCKING-MEN to this. It seems user "kass" cares as much about music and the industry around it as the OP does.

Give me a break.


Your pay is set by a market. Deal with it guys. Everyone else does.


The OP seems to care about music and his job more than you. He loves it so much he will work for penuts to do it, while you guys blame him for your falling paychecks.



Soda companies A,B, and C call up Soda company D and tell him he's selling soda too cheaply. "You're ruining the industry," they tell him. "You should raise your prices." Ok.

Unfortunately, FBI overheard the conversation. Now they are all fined $500 million each for collusion.

 

[OneDaySky]

just a thought ...

maybe you should consider changing your "EP/Album Package" deals from a flat rate to just another price break

for instance you have for mixing song = $70, EP (3-6 songs) = $60 and then a flat rate for a full album of 7-12 songs. Maybe you should just change that to like $50. Its still a price break for having more work from the client but it kinda makes more sense than a flat rate of $330

at your current pricing:

6 song EP = $360
7 song "album" = $330

now if they come to you with 12 songs, you'll be charging them $330 instead of $720 at the "EP" rate. Essentially, they'll be getting a 2nd EP out of you for free

Now if you charged $50 as your album rate

6 song EP = $360
7 song album = $350 so you're kinda giving away a song here but most people would be doing between 8-12 songs I think for an album. That being the case ...

8 - 12 song album = $400 - $600 which is still really fucking reasonable but you're not shooting yourself in the foot, or anyone else for that matter

just something to consider

Thx man, i see your point, i changed e pricing to compensate. I appreciate the help dude
The point of the EP is the limit of songs (6 Max), 2 EP's (12 songs) would be 2 different Deals

 

[Skinny Viking]

no problem man ... yeah I may not have articulated my thought as well as I wanted but my overall point is valid

regardless of your song / price limit between EP and Album the fact is that you had $330 as your flat price on a 7-12 song album

what I was saying is that if you did that and you looked at what you were gonna charge for a 6 song EP, doing a 12 song album at $330 would basically be like doing a 2nd EP for free

 

[OneDaySky]

no problem man ... yeah I may not have articulated my thought as well as I wanted but my overall point is valid

regardless of your song / price limit between EP and Album the fact is that you had $330 as your flat price on a 7-12 song album

what I was saying is that if you did that and you looked at what you were gonna charge for a 6 song EP, doing a 12 song album at $330 would basically be like doing a 2nd EP for free

Fully understand man thx for the heads up. Hope my OP makes more sense now.



For more information or queries please Inbox Me

 

[Skinny Viking]

just took a look

I would still strongly suggest doing away with the flat rate album package going off your other pricing ... $50 a song for Album projects is still a price break from the EP rate and even a 12 song album is still gonna be done for $600 which is VERY reasonable. Its your call obviously but I think its in your best interest to have that album package at $50 a song instead of the flat rate

oh by the way, you may want to change the rate you have listed in your signature to reflect your new found confidence in your rate charging

 

[mstone564]

And here's why people don't/shouldn't give out there rates over the Internet...

 

[Skinny Viking]

^ and THERE is why people shouldn't have sex with THEIR cousins ...

 

[OneDaySky]

just took a look

I would still strongly suggest doing away with the flat rate album package going off your other pricing ... $50 a song for Album projects is still a price break from the EP rate and even a 12 song album is still gonna be done for $600 which is VERY reasonable. Its your call obviously but I think its in your best interest to have that album package at $50 a song instead of the flat rate

oh by the way, you may want to change the rate you have listed in your signature to reflect your new found confidence in your rate charging

Ok cool changed again. Man i hope its better now. Everything is now a 'Per song' rate option. Still comes to the same total amount but you wont be paying a fixed fee for 7 - 12 songs anymore.

 

[Line666]

You two gonna start blowing each now?

If so, Owen might want in

Dunno dude, I'm not in much of a sharing mood.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

^ and THERE is why people shouldn't have sex with THEIR cousins ...

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool, you're a bastard Carlos

 

[Anthropocide]

1) Person A works for $100.
2) Person B works for $1000.
3) Client X tells Person B they won't pay him $1000 because Person A works for $100.
4) Person B is forced to work for $100.

I disagree. If they have such a huge difference in rates, there are also differences in their experience, quality, reputation, publicity... If you want to get really decent result you must pay 1000$ for person B, otherwise you'll get what you pay - poor quality, zero revisions, 3 months waiting for the mix and so on... Sometimes there are offers with good quality at low rates, but it's only exception. Therefore, the chain of events would be like this:
1) Person A works for $100.
2) Person B works for $1000.
3) Client X tells Person B they won't pay him $1000 because Person A works for $100.
4) Person B refuses to work for $100 due to huge difference in experience and quality between him and Person A.
5) Client X pays $100 for Person A.
6) After getting final mix Client X was not happy with result at all.
7) Client X is forced to pay $1000 for Person B.

Same thing in all other fields in the market. There are guitars for $1000+ and guitars only for $100. No one would complain about cheap guitars from China that flooded the market You would just pay what you are able for.

 

[Skaldir]

Depends on your workflow, editing is apart of the Tracking stage but not exclusively. attention to detail can only be done in post pro/mixing unless you willing to keep the muso waiting between takes. Imagine editing live drums with 8 - 14 tracks during tracking? Sounds dodge to me!

Doesn't make much sense to me.
Because you need to edit drums before bass and guitar play on top of it as tightly as possible.
It should be edited before it goes to the mixing engineer.

 

[OneDaySky]

Doesn't make much sense to me.
Because you need to edit drums before bass and guitar play on top of it as tightly as possible.
It should be edited before it goes to the mixing engineer.

That sounds like bad workflow to me. You cant edit perfectly during the tracking stage, only quick adjustments should be done. You'll just be wasting tracking/paying customer time which no label/band is keen on.

That stuff is/should be done once the tracking is done!

 

[OneDaySky]

I disagree. If they have such a huge difference in rates, there are also differences in their experience, quality, reputation, publicity... If you want to get really decent result you must pay 1000$ for person B, otherwise you'll get what you pay - poor quality, zero revisions, 3 months waiting for the mix and so on... Sometimes there are offers with good quality at low rates, but it's only exception. Therefore, the chain of events would be like this:
1) Person A works for $100.
2) Person B works for $1000.
3) Client X tells Person B they won't pay him $1000 because Person A works for $100.
4) Person B refuses to work for $100 due to huge difference in experience and quality between him and Person A.
5) Client X pays $100 for Person A.
6) After getting final mix Client X was not happy with result at all.
7) Client X is forced to pay $1000 for Person B.

Same thing in all other fields in the market. There are guitars for $1000+ and guitars only for $100. No one would complain about cheap guitars from China that flooded the market You would just pay what you are able for.

I disagree on the quality being compromised in my case. I've never had complaints from bands, and im always booked, so i cant be half bad. End of the day its about making the client happy. I was initially offering my service fro waaaay cheap to purely get lots more work, experience and exposure. But now ive up'ed back to a normal rate to help preserve the industry standard.