Modern day recording; do we need to mic up guitar amps anymore?

[drew_drummer]

Well, you guys are right. I put my Laney through cab sim tonight, and also recorded the mic'd tone. A mixture of both sounds very good, and the mic's sound very good on their own too. The sim doesn't really sound that great on its own - doesn't cut through as much as I want.

I tried a different microphone tonight, and it sounds much much better than what I was getting before!

 

[Flat Fifth Fury]

FWIW, I think that the POD did to project studios what the DAW did: give us amazing amount of usefulness and power that is very easy to use and cheap enough to be affordable by most small budget pros and semi-pros. However just as we are trying to get better sounding plugins to simulate tape saturation and great sounding analog this and that - amp modeling only goes so far but that's fine. It sounds "good enough" for all but the most critical listener. But then that critical listener tends to be US.

I've gone round and round with other guitar players who are on mindless tone quests and the bottom line is that if your audience is digging your music it doesn't matter if you are playing through a Bogner or a Rockman X100 direct to the board. If that juggy blond ever asks you if you have Mullard EL-34's in your '68 Plexi, then you need to marry that girl. But it will never happen. Your Tesla power tubes sound just fine thanks.

So do we still need to mike amps? Yep. Especially if you are trying for a unique sound or have a magical amp. You will never get the sound of George Lynch's purple Plexi out of your Axe-FX. Modeling will give you lots of usable sounds but nothing that makes you fall out of your seat. But you will be able to have loads of sounds that would be way out of your price/space range easily. I think that they are great tools and even if I had a room full of amazing amps, I'd still use modeling because it would give me options.

But if some guy wanted me to record tracks with his blue stripe Mark III, I would mic that sucker up. But I might split his signal for possible reamping through the modeler for extra texture later on.

 

[MarkG]

The best possible results are still from micing up real cabinets, so ideally that's what you'd probably want to do.

That said, not everyone has the opportunity to mic up and crank an amp for hours on end to record.

Enter emulation and impulse technology. Soundwise it can get you 95% there, in less than half the time, without having to crank anything. To me this is the ideal solution for those who want to record quick ideas without too much hassle, and those who can't afford, or otherwise aren't able to mic up a multi-thousand dollar setup.

Impulses can get you 95% there, which is enough to record nice ideas, and make a demo. When you get signed (as if right?) you'll probably have access to a recording studio, better gear, and various other options not available to you previously. This is where impulses begin to take the backseat to real micing, because you now have the means, and the opportunity to do real, high quality mic'ed recordings.

That said, I think there is far too much emphasis on that amazing gear, that amazing micing technique, those amazing impulses lately. I see 15 year old kids with a god damn ENGL SE and Mesa 4x12 cabinet. Incredible gear, and if those 15 year olds worked and saved up for it all the more power to them.

However, more often than not their skill is greatly lacking. The songs they make are uninspired and the playing itself is sloppy. I don't care how great their gear is, I don't care how incredible their sound COULD be. Tone, and music is mostly in the fingers, and in the mind. I'd rather listen to inspiring, refreshing music thats well played but recorded with impulses, than listen to the so called real deal mic'ed up recording with uninspired sloppy playing.

Don't get me wrong I don't mean to bash 15 year olds. In fact, I know a 13 year old who royally desecrates my ass when it comes to guitar. I'm just trying (and probably failing) to say that if it is well played, inspired and fresh it'll sound good, even through mediocre gear and recording.

Where was I going with this? OH YEAH, I love chocolate...mostly dark chocolate with nuts.

/end my unadulterated opinion

 

[mintcheerios]

I think amp sims are there. I'll say this without caveat. I felt that I've spent too much energy on music equipment when I realized the power of good mixing techniques. There have just been too many awesome sounding songs mixed with amp sims (on this very forum) for me to think that the well miced cabinet will always yield superior results.

Drums are different though since they are sample based. With amp sims, your guitar, pickups, and playing style still effect the sound in a big way, but with drums you are stuck with the samples. You can mold the sound with effects (which can make huge differences in the sound), but the base sounds are always the same. The only way around this is to mic real drums or buy as many drum programs as you can.

 

[drew_drummer]

Drums are different though since they are sample based. With amp sims, your guitar, pickups, and playing style still effect the sound in a big way, but with drums you are stuck with the samples. You can mold the sound with effects (which can make huge differences in the sound), but the base sounds are always the same. The only way around this is to mic real drums or buy as many drum programs as you can.

The thing is, most drum sounds you hear nowadays have an element of sampling in there, even if its just replacing the kick drum.

 

[Mark Fairfax-Harwood]

The thing is, most drum sounds you hear nowadays have an element of sampling in there, even if its just replacing the kick drum.

But then we drifted on until we got into the likes of the grindcore blast trick "turning up the snare trigger
sensitivity till just by rattleing 1 stck up and down between the rim and skin and carefully setting a lock out time, a steady one handed roll is available".uke:

 

[John_C]

But then we drifted on until we got into the likes of the grindcore blast trick "turning up the snare trigger
sensitivity till just by rattleing 1 stck up and down between the rim and skin and carefully setting a lock out time, a steady one handed roll is available".uke:

urmmmmm gravity blasting is real......my drummer can do it without triggers just fine

 

[TheDude]

urmmmmm gravity blasting is real......my drummer can do it without triggers just fine

You guys don't play that loud, uh?

As for the "do we need..." question, the answer is yes, of course. But the use of an Axe-FX doesn't rule out a good guitar amp and a good miked cab. A good guitar amp has terrible effects though.....

What I'm trying to say is that on every damn forum the general thought is that it's either analogue OR digital gear. Fuck it. I'm using everything, and I like it!

Carry on.

 

[John_C]

You guys don't play that loud, uh?

hehe i said he can do it, i never said we actually use it