theVikingR
inexplicable
- Jun 9, 2006
- 278
- 6
- 18
Perhaps part of the stereotyping problem these days is many metalheads' immediate cry of "we're not guilty" (see several posts in this thread), with concern for the actual victims as an afterthought?
Montreal Shooting!
- Thread starter proulxski
- Start date
shanky
bruce lee lol
- Dec 8, 2005
- 180
- 1
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Kinda unrelated, but I hate how a teenager can steal their parent's gun, shoot a bunch of other kids, and in the end the video game that the kid likes or the music that he likes ends up being seen as the main cause. But when a 20-year-old who loves rap goes and joins a gang and does a drive-by, no one gives a shit. It's ridiculous. For some reason, I think the media wants to make metal and video games look bad.
We get picked on so much. >.<
This is also making metal look bad. Because we all do the whole \m/ thing, we're all devil worshippers. I'm pretty sure the horns don't mean anything satanic to anyone. They're more of a universal symbol for "Rock On!" and is used to show appreciation towards something. If you go see a band and they're awesome, you flash the horns. Simple as that. Not the "sign of the devil".
We get picked on so much. >.<
Rose Immortal
Spirit of Hope
- Jun 19, 2004
- 1,425
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theVikingR said:
I do have sympathy for the victims and said so. That was my first thought.
The discussion was going to the metal stereotype, and I DON'T agree that metal can completely wipe its hands of all responsibility. As long as there are those in it who act like violence, hatred, and bigotry are cool, it is upon us to act together to flush that out instead of sitting back and tolerating it. Obviously social pressure is the only legitimate tool at our disposal, but just like the rap community (YES, I did it, I compared the two), there is a fringe creating a problem and it has got to be dealt with. The rappers have got to stand up and take responsibility (like shanky said)--AND so do metalheads!
Kenneth R.
Cináed
Very well said Shanky.shanky said:
And to expand on what you said, let's take this little guy for example:
Now, what's the vBcode for this classic UMF smiley? :rock:. Not :satan:. The horns really have become a universal symbol to ROCK THE FUCK OUT!!! Like you said, if a band is playing an awesome show, flash the horns high and proud, to say "ROCK ON!!!"
Rose Immortal
Spirit of Hope
- Jun 19, 2004
- 1,425
- 10
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Problem is, as long as you've got that minority that may well use it in the "hail Satan" way, they're the ones that are going to get the most media attention and that media attention will have a huge impact on what people think of metalheads as a whole. So I hate to say it, but the discrimination cannot be expected to go away as long as anybody is providing any reason for those on the "outside" to believe it's true--even if it's one person.
Hassan Kadhim, whose 17-year-old brother lies in hospital with three bullet wounds to the leg, neck and head, wants Harper to think twice about his decision.
"Canada is supposed to be a peaceful country. We're not in the United States," Kadhim told CTV News.
"For (Harper) to talk about removing the registry for guns and maybe making it easier for people to get themselves guns... And then we see this tragedy happening. I mean, does it take something like this for our prime minister to understand? He's sitting in Ottawa, drinking his coffee, taking it easy. And the families here are all paying the price. It's good to be in power, but you've got be responsible for what you say and what you think."
One woman was killed and 19 wounded when 25-year-old Kimveer Gill opened fire indiscriminately at the Montreal school on Wednesday. Anastasia DeSousa, 18, died of her wounds. Gill took his own life after being shot in the arm by police.
DeSousa's mother, Louise DeSousa, said something has to be done to stop gun violence.
"It has to stop. There are too many cases of this going around and it's not necessary," she said.
Gill used a pistol and restricted Beretta CX4 Storm semi-automatic carbine in the violent rampage, both of which he acquired legally.
Harper has refused to enter a debate on whether the federal long-gun registry should be scrapped, saying it's too soon after the tragedy to debate the issue.
"Frankly, I think it's not a day for a discussion of policies," Harper said Thursday. "I can only note that obviously the current laws did not prevent this incident, and as a government we are seeking more effective laws for the future."
On Thursday, a tearful Quebec Premier Jean Charest said he will oppose Harper's plan to abolish the registry.
"I told Mr. Harper (Wednesday night) he can certainly expect a tense debate over the registry," Charest said Thursday after meeting with families of the victims.
"We hope that Ottawa will take into consideration that here in Quebec our view on the registry is one that has sadly been forged by these tragic events and that they will take that into account."
Virtually all Quebec politicians, outside of Harper's caucus, stood united to save the controversial $1 billion gun registry.
Quebec will send a delegation to Ottawa to make their case to keep the gun registry in place. It will be headed by Public Security Minister Jacques Dupuis, and will include police chiefs, psychologists, family members of the victims, and other groups, The Globe and Mail reports.
As a key ally to Harper, Charest's opposition could hurt Harper's chances of a much-needed breakthrough in Quebec if he is to win a majority government.
Conservative MPs weigh in
On Friday, Conservative MPs outside of the last Tory caucus meeting of the summer commented on the situation.
Garth Turner, the outspoken Ontario MP from Halton, said it's too soon to speculate on how to avoid future tragedies. However, Turner said the fact Gill legally owned the guns he used in the shooting indicates something needs to change.
"We're too close to this tragedy and I don't think any of us know exactly what the answers are, other than this is a giant wake up call," Turner told reporters. "It's a giant alarm bell going off, that if someone actually complies with every element of our law and we end up with this situation, the law doesn't work.
Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day, speaking in French, said the government will examine current laws to determine "how it is possible a person so unbalanced could have the possibility of having firearms," and must take steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.
But critics argue the government should also ban semi-automatic weapons, that can fire off five rounds within seconds.
"Semi-automatics have no role to play in the hands of private owners in this country," said New Democrat justice critic Joe Comartin.
The tragedy has prompted Nova Scotia Premier Rodney MacDonald to order a review of school security and emergency services practices in that province.
"What's important is that, whether it's our Primary-to-12 education system, whether it's our college system, the appropriate measures be put in place to have a safe atmosphere,'' MacDonald said. "But also an inviting atmosphere, and that is always the balance.''
Four of the shooting victims remain in "very critical" condition, said CTV's Montreal Bureau Chief Jed Kahane, reporting Friday morning from outside Montreal General Hospital.
"There has been no change in their status overnight. One of them is in an induced coma, and they are trying to just let their bodies rest, to somehow begin to heal from these very serious gunshot wounds. It's a minute-to-minute affair."
Victim described as "perfect" by family
Details have begun to emerge about Anastasia DeSousa, who was known to her friends as "Stacey."
The 18-year-old girl who loved the colour pink and had dreams of a career in international business or marketing was described as "the perfect little girl" by mourning family members.
"She was so good, so generous ... the loss is enormous," said her uncle Real Hevey.
Her friend, James Santos was with her in the college. He knelt by her side after she had been shot, while Gill looked on.
"I basically stayed with her, trying to keep her awake. She was breathing, but she was not doing great," Santos told CTV News.
In a cruel twist, Santos said that Gill then turned a gun on him and ordered him to leave DeSousa behind. He then grabbed Santos.
"He told me, 'Today I'm going to die today,'" recalled Santos. "And I said, 'You don't have to, you don't have to die, you can make this easy on you and let everyone go.' ... He said, 'Well, I'm going to die.'"
----
The more i read about this guy the more insane he becomes, kudos to the family's for being strong and sticking up for their rights...fighting the politcal system is never easy, but is not impossible!
"Canada is supposed to be a peaceful country. We're not in the United States," Kadhim told CTV News.
"For (Harper) to talk about removing the registry for guns and maybe making it easier for people to get themselves guns... And then we see this tragedy happening. I mean, does it take something like this for our prime minister to understand? He's sitting in Ottawa, drinking his coffee, taking it easy. And the families here are all paying the price. It's good to be in power, but you've got be responsible for what you say and what you think."
One woman was killed and 19 wounded when 25-year-old Kimveer Gill opened fire indiscriminately at the Montreal school on Wednesday. Anastasia DeSousa, 18, died of her wounds. Gill took his own life after being shot in the arm by police.
DeSousa's mother, Louise DeSousa, said something has to be done to stop gun violence.
"It has to stop. There are too many cases of this going around and it's not necessary," she said.
Gill used a pistol and restricted Beretta CX4 Storm semi-automatic carbine in the violent rampage, both of which he acquired legally.
Harper has refused to enter a debate on whether the federal long-gun registry should be scrapped, saying it's too soon after the tragedy to debate the issue.
"Frankly, I think it's not a day for a discussion of policies," Harper said Thursday. "I can only note that obviously the current laws did not prevent this incident, and as a government we are seeking more effective laws for the future."
On Thursday, a tearful Quebec Premier Jean Charest said he will oppose Harper's plan to abolish the registry.
"I told Mr. Harper (Wednesday night) he can certainly expect a tense debate over the registry," Charest said Thursday after meeting with families of the victims.
"We hope that Ottawa will take into consideration that here in Quebec our view on the registry is one that has sadly been forged by these tragic events and that they will take that into account."
Virtually all Quebec politicians, outside of Harper's caucus, stood united to save the controversial $1 billion gun registry.
Quebec will send a delegation to Ottawa to make their case to keep the gun registry in place. It will be headed by Public Security Minister Jacques Dupuis, and will include police chiefs, psychologists, family members of the victims, and other groups, The Globe and Mail reports.
As a key ally to Harper, Charest's opposition could hurt Harper's chances of a much-needed breakthrough in Quebec if he is to win a majority government.
Conservative MPs weigh in
On Friday, Conservative MPs outside of the last Tory caucus meeting of the summer commented on the situation.
Garth Turner, the outspoken Ontario MP from Halton, said it's too soon to speculate on how to avoid future tragedies. However, Turner said the fact Gill legally owned the guns he used in the shooting indicates something needs to change.
"We're too close to this tragedy and I don't think any of us know exactly what the answers are, other than this is a giant wake up call," Turner told reporters. "It's a giant alarm bell going off, that if someone actually complies with every element of our law and we end up with this situation, the law doesn't work.
Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day, speaking in French, said the government will examine current laws to determine "how it is possible a person so unbalanced could have the possibility of having firearms," and must take steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.
But critics argue the government should also ban semi-automatic weapons, that can fire off five rounds within seconds.
"Semi-automatics have no role to play in the hands of private owners in this country," said New Democrat justice critic Joe Comartin.
The tragedy has prompted Nova Scotia Premier Rodney MacDonald to order a review of school security and emergency services practices in that province.
"What's important is that, whether it's our Primary-to-12 education system, whether it's our college system, the appropriate measures be put in place to have a safe atmosphere,'' MacDonald said. "But also an inviting atmosphere, and that is always the balance.''
Four of the shooting victims remain in "very critical" condition, said CTV's Montreal Bureau Chief Jed Kahane, reporting Friday morning from outside Montreal General Hospital.
"There has been no change in their status overnight. One of them is in an induced coma, and they are trying to just let their bodies rest, to somehow begin to heal from these very serious gunshot wounds. It's a minute-to-minute affair."
Victim described as "perfect" by family
Details have begun to emerge about Anastasia DeSousa, who was known to her friends as "Stacey."
The 18-year-old girl who loved the colour pink and had dreams of a career in international business or marketing was described as "the perfect little girl" by mourning family members.
"She was so good, so generous ... the loss is enormous," said her uncle Real Hevey.
Her friend, James Santos was with her in the college. He knelt by her side after she had been shot, while Gill looked on.
"I basically stayed with her, trying to keep her awake. She was breathing, but she was not doing great," Santos told CTV News.
In a cruel twist, Santos said that Gill then turned a gun on him and ordered him to leave DeSousa behind. He then grabbed Santos.
"He told me, 'Today I'm going to die today,'" recalled Santos. "And I said, 'You don't have to, you don't have to die, you can make this easy on you and let everyone go.' ... He said, 'Well, I'm going to die.'"
----
The more i read about this guy the more insane he becomes, kudos to the family's for being strong and sticking up for their rights...fighting the politcal system is never easy, but is not impossible!
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
shanky said:
So am i the only one that sees people not into metal flash the horns, and i just want to punch them in the goddamn face? Like someone rockin' out to... oh, i don't know... green day? Or stone sour or some other bullshit... i just wanna hit them. The end.
oh... and victems... tragedy... condolgn*mumbles*
The preposterousness of this statement has been discussed here many times before.DoomsdayZach said:
Rose Immortal
Spirit of Hope
- Jun 19, 2004
- 1,425
- 10
- 38
"We're not in the United States"?
I hate to say it, but this Harper guy has it right. Real creeps will find a way to do what they want to do no matter what laws people try to put in place to stop them.
Even though I'm not Canadian, I do wish that Canada never had to see such a tragedy.
I hate to say it, but this Harper guy has it right. Real creeps will find a way to do what they want to do no matter what laws people try to put in place to stop them.
Even though I'm not Canadian, I do wish that Canada never had to see such a tragedy.
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
How's that preposterous? I know it's been discussed before, but this thread is bringing me down. Figured punchinng people in the face is better than shooting them eh?Beelzebub said:
:danceboy:
You get pissed off because of "misuse" of a simple gesture associated with the music you listen to? Sounds pretty preposterous to me. Anyway, this isn't the place to be talking about this.DoomsdayZach said:
Then don't read it.
Right, because doing something less violent is an acceptable action. You can't just hide behind danceboy all the time and say you're not serious because this thread does discuss a serious matter.
I agree. I read an article a while back (I'd link, but it's archived now) about how easy it is to purchase a gun in some parts of the US. Gun laws here aren't federally regulated, they vary state to state. It would be harder to purchase a gun in a city than it would be to purchase it in a more rural state. In the article, a woman proved the point of how it's not always easy to use the system. Anyway, it took her 20 minutes to buy a gun in Pennsylvania, but it took three weeks to get a restraining order.RI said:
On a sort of but not really related note, eBay is apparently banning the sale of black metal albums:
http://www.roadrun.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=58406
I know this is a blabbermouth, but still...
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
Paula is the person who runs candlelight in america, so she'd know.
And i know this thread discusses a serious matter. I'm not trying to detract from the importance, but bringing humor into a sad situation isn't really that bad of an idea. I mean hell, if i took everything in this world seriously (or anyone for that matter) and really looked at all the evil shit that goes on every day (and real evil shit, not grown men in clown makeup crouching down between trees in their back yards evil), you'd never get through life.
Sometimes, ignorance truly is bliss.
And i know this thread discusses a serious matter. I'm not trying to detract from the importance, but bringing humor into a sad situation isn't really that bad of an idea. I mean hell, if i took everything in this world seriously (or anyone for that matter) and really looked at all the evil shit that goes on every day (and real evil shit, not grown men in clown makeup crouching down between trees in their back yards evil), you'd never get through life.
Sometimes, ignorance truly is bliss.
Anonymous
L'Étranger
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
Kenneth R.
Cináed
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
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