Multiple computers question

[Genius Gone Insane]

OK, novice question here. I've been recording drums and getting half-decent results using all 8 inputs on my 001:

2 Overheads (literally placed over drummer's head)
3 Tom triggers
1 snare trigger
1 snare mic
1 kick trigger

I'd like to improve my cymbal sound (2 crash, 1 china, plus 1 ride and 1 hat) by adding a condenser mic or two into the overhead mix. I'm just getting too much undesireable room verb with the x-y setup I have.

Unfortunately, as I said already, I've only got 8 inputs. I can't really get rid of the snare trigger (and use just the snare mic) as the trigger works perfectly, even with my inconsistent drummer, while the mic is very, very difficult to noise gate correctly without the trigger track...The bottom line is that I could really use more inputs.

So I've got 2 computers, one with 8 ins and another with 2 ins. I use PTLE on the 8-in computer and either cubasis or Nuendo 2 on the 2-in computer. It's my guess that using the two together to get 10 tracks would be super difficult but maybe I'm wrong. Does anyone here use 2 computers at once? If so, do you run different programs? I suppose I could have both soundcards in the same computer, but that would be kind of a pain in the ass. Ideas?

 

[006]

I have never tried this before. But I can offer some advice/other options. If the 001 has an ADAT in (I don't remember, never used it, only the 002) then you could get something like a Focusrite OctoPre, or something along those lines that has an ADAT out, and that would give you 8 more channels directly to the 001. Again I'm not sure if the 001 has ADAT I/O but if it does, that would be ideal, since you could use one computer, and have the 8 tracks show up in PTLE as well.

Thats how I am going to get 16 tracks with my 002R once I get it. I plan on recording live shows for bands, and the venues I have talked to use more than 8 channels/tracks on their boards, but usually no more than 12 or so. Therefore I would be set, and you would too if the 001 has an ADAT in.

As far as a condensor for overheads, thats a great idea. I've never used anything other than condensors for overheads, and I usually mic the ride up seperately with something like an AT40** series mic. In fact, you can get two Studio Projects B1's for under $200, and believe me, just one of these mics should literally cost upwards of $600, they sound amazing, .:especially:. for the price. I bought one of them for mic'ing up an acoustic guitar and it's unbeleivable how pricey it SOUNDS. Haven't used it yet on drums or anything (only acoustic guitar, electric guitar amps, and vocals) but with the results from everything else, I can only assume it would be great on cymbals also. Besides that, just any condensor in general will make your cymbals come out more natural sounding and clear than just a dynamic mic. Moving on...As far as unwanted reverb from the room, it could be that you are working in what is called a "dry" room, as in no acoustic treatments, making everything bounce back. You could invest in a set of...panels? of acoustic foam from somewhere like Sweetwater or Musicians Friend, or even most music stores with recording departments should have some. They usually come in packs of like 6-8 2'x4' squares and vary in sizes ranging from that and more. Usually around $100 or so. There are also package deals for about $1k with an entire assortment, basically a whole solution in one big box. If you want to go cheaper, you could get rugs, blankets, egg-crate things for beds, or even put mattresses up on the walls to try to catch some of the sounds. Hope this helps.

~006

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Thanks...yes the 001 has an s/pdif connection. I remember hearing somewhere that you can't use it for that purpose though. I don't know how reliable that source is so I'll look into it more....

I started using soundwalls--2 big 7 foot tall, curved ones that I put about 3 feet beyond the cymbals, at 90 degrees apart from the drummer--and that helped brighten the sound. Still, I'd like to be able to, for example, turn the china volume up on certain hits. I just can't do that well with the simple x-y.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Coudn't you just get the MIDI out of the triggers and thus free 5 audio inputs ?

 

[James Murphy]

Thanks...yes the 001 has an s/pdif connection. I remember hearing somewhere that you can't use it for that purpose though. I don't know how reliable that source is so I'll look into it more....

I started using soundwalls--2 big 7 foot tall, curved ones that I put about 3 feet beyond the cymbals, at 90 degrees apart from the drummer--and that helped brighten the sound. Still, I'd like to be able to, for example, turn the china volume up on certain hits. I just can't do that well with the simple x-y.

well, ADAT light pipe and s/pdiff are two entirely different formats and are incompatible... to use something like the focusrite octapre you would need to have ADAT lightpipe.. which is an optical cable that carries up to 8 discrete channels of audio. s/pdiff looks like an RCA connector and carries only 2 channels, generally left and right of a stereo signal.. though some programs let you use them as 2 independant mono channels.

Brett's suggestion is also a good one... record the midi output of your drum sound module and only a stereo mix of the module's output for reference.. that will free up about 3 inputs on your set up for more cymbal mics... then you can fix up your drummer's performance by editing the midi notes, which once you have the hang of it is loads easier than editing the audio, and then afterwards play the midi back out to your module and record your samples in one or more at a time..plus having midi running allows you to change samples any time you like, at the push of a button.

seems to me like you have a few options that are all better then trying to slave one computer to another.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Coudn't you just get the MIDI out of the triggers and thus free 5 audio inputs ?

Funny that you bring that up...Originally I tried that with the Alesis DM5 (I think that's what it's called, don't forget it's late here in California ) but there were two problems. First, for some reason the MIDI wasn't in sync. I have expensive triggers on the snare and kick but crappy ones for the toms. If I remember correctly, the toms were out of sync but the kick and snare were ok.

The second problem was that my computer couldn't handle the MIDI input for more than a couple minutes. I was new to all this at the time and it's possible that I overlooked a simple solution that I would have figured out nowadays.

Anyway, that's something I'll look into...thanks. By the way, I looked through the digidesign forum and discovered for sure the 001 can hook up to adat, but I'm still not sure if I can record live with all 8 001 tracks going at the same time. It's a simple question that I just can't find a straight answer to.

Does anyone know of an inexpensive ADAT that would work for this?

 

[006]

Only thing that I can think of are things similar to the Focusrite OctoPre. The mic pres in it are great, and it's ADAT out into the 001 (as you say it has an ADAT in) will give you 8 more channels to use. For a total of 16 simultaneous tracks. What are the specs of the computer you are using with the 001?

~006

 

[006]

I just checked the Digidesign site and it appears that the 001 doesn't have an ADAT IN on the unit. So my suggestion on the OctoPre is out the window. Yep...

~006

 

[egan.]

I just checked the Digidesign site and it appears that the 001 doesn't have an ADAT IN on the unit. So my suggestion on the OctoPre is out the window. Yep...

~006

The digi 001 DOES have an ADAT in but it's on the PCI card not the breakout box.

 

[egan.]

By the way, I looked through the digidesign forum and discovered for sure the 001 can hook up to adat, but I'm still not sure if I can record live with all 8 001 tracks going at the same time. It's a simple question that I just can't find a straight answer to.

Does anyone know of an inexpensive ADAT that would work for this?

You can record up to 18 tracks simultaneously with the 001
8 (analog on the 001) + 8 (ADAT in) + 2(s/pdif) = 18

I think that the digimax and octopre are good units. If you want to get in for really cheap I think behringer (gulp) makes a box for like $200.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Wow thanks for the help, you guys are rad.

 

[006]

Oh woops, didn't think to check the PCI card, lol. Well then yeah, thats the best way man. Get an OctoPre from Focusrite or a Digimax from PreSonus, both are great, both give you 8 more channels via ADAT. Here are links to both....

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OctoPre/
Focusrite OctoPre

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DigimaxLT/
PreSonus DigiMaxLT

Good luck.

~006

 

[black sugar]

If you want to take advantage of those 2 s/pdif channels, I'd recomment the ART DI/O. My roomate has one and it's damn good for $160.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/180580/

A friend who, due to Behringer stigma, will remain nameless also has the Ultragain Pro-8 (I'm 99% sure it's that one, anyway) and gets great results from it. $230 for 8 channel ADAT lightpipe? Ah, Behringer...

 

[006]

Lol YOU CAN SEE HIS STRIPES BUT YOU KNOW HE'S CLEANNNNNN!!!! HOLY DIVAH!!! lol.
Hmm didn't know Behringer made anything with ADAT...may have to look into that as possibly a backup or something...

~006

 

[black sugar]

Behringer Ultragain Pro-8:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/182483/


Something is coming for you... LOOKOUT!

 

[006]

Lol, cool thanks for the link. Sugar, I recorded an 80's metal track about an hour ago inspired by seeing your now playing selection, hehe. If you're interested I'll upload it to my ftp.

~006

 

[006]

Genious Gone Insane: I just checked out the reviews on MF of the ADA8000 by Behringer, and one reviewer said this: "This is an amazing price for what you get. Comparable products with the same features can easily run you $600 and up. You can't go wrong. Works perfectly with the Digi001." So it could be worth a shot. All the other reviews said it sounds much better than the price suggests. Good luck again with whatever you decide to do.

~006

 

[006]

Sugar....the ADA8000 has a phantom power switch...is it for all 8 channels or no? If it is...I'm wondering if it would really mess with my dynamic mics that don't need it, that is when I would be running 1 or 2 condensors on it, and the other 6-7 channels having dynamic mics (SM57, MD421, e609, etc.).

Also does anybody know if the phantom power button on the MBox enables phantom power to both channels or just "source 1" input channel?

~006

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Sweet....I'm headed to the studio now to see if I can get that MIDI working right. If not, the ADA8000 sounds like a great deal...seriously, thanks for the help fellas.

 

[unsilpauly]

hey man. the behringer ada8 is pretty good for the money for sure. i have owned that unit before and it was pretty cool. i have recently gotten the digimax lt(for 600.00usd on ebay. if you search the deals are out there) and it is much better. 0n a scale of 1-10 the behringer is probably a 3-4 and the presonus is probably a 6-7 and im sure the focusrite is alittle better than that. the presonus pres are immediatly noticably better than the behringers. and as far as gear goes, it sucks buying it twice. you know you buy the inexpensive option and then alittle while later you realize you shouldnt have taken the cheap way out. you get what you pay for. and especially if your mic collection isnt the deepest and greatest a better mic pre will help alot. if youve got alot of good mics than the behringer will be that much better. good luck, hope it works out for ya.