Musical Talent: Technical Skill, or Songwriting?

[Manbient]

Don't ask me why, but i posted on the Much Music forum in this thread about what the word "talent" means, and a bunch of children are trying to say that musical talent means the technical proficiency of the artist, and has absolutely nothing to do with songwriting skill, which apparently is "artistic" and therefore completely unrelated to "talent".

Anyway, it makes no sense in any way, even explained to them why and they keep going on. Read this thread and be angered by the sheer stupidity. It's kind of fun to laugh at.

http://boards.muchmusic.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1442821&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1

 

[NFU]

skill is a part of talent obviously. but to be a good artist (or songwriter) one also needs talent too. Also to be a good artist, one needs a certain amount of technical ability too, to be able to convey what it is they want to write or play. its one big circle jerk really.

but id say songwriting ability far surpasses the importance of technical prowess.

 

[Seth'Peth]

Songwriting which means...feeling, emotion, flow, catchiness/memorability(if that's a word) is much more important IMO...but the base talent needs to be there of course. I'm sure Dream Theater could be used as a prime example. I do like some of their stuff even if it is 'wankery', but all that technical talent can't give them, and hasn't given them a solid catalogue of great songs.

Seth

 

[Manbient]

indeed. The argument isn't about which is more important though, it's much much simpler... these guys aremerely trying to state that "songwriting" isn't even a part of what the word talent MEANS. for some reason they are equating it completely with the term technical proficiency, which is one tiny aspect of what talent encapsulates.

 

[Don Corleone]

e.g. david gilmour

a very talented soloist with lots of feeling and a bit of technical knowledge. read his interviews, he says the same thing.

other examples:
roger waters
nick cave
lou reed
leonard cohen
tori amos
nick drake

 

[Don Corleone]

could someone please explain what is meant by the first entry of that thread?

"mostly everything had seen the countdown on muchmusic...right?...well...there are like totally stupid bands their like "boy" ...their songs stink like shit and their suck like big time!!!people get a life and leave us alone!"

is that english?

 

[Manbient]

haha! yeah... some people aren't the best at writing the thread initially was about bands on the "countdown" (that's basically the top videos of the week) being untalented, nad it took a different spin. and funny you mention David Gilmour, i actually did as well in the thread.

 

[Don Corleone]

yes, i just read.

they are just kids and that explains everything. let it go.

 

[affinityband]

You cant have one or the other, it has to be both. but if you get too much of th ol skill it ends up with wankery like bodom.

 

[BrianPark]

Talent is having the technical skill to express your musical artistry.

 

[ViCyniC]

HOW BOUT BOTH TALENT AND SKILL.

Without having/developing some skill, you can never utilize your talent to its full potential.

 

[Pseud0]

but i posted on the Much Music forum

ya also posted it at the POS board

 

[JoeVice]

i believe there is a line drawn between talent and skill. a skill can be practiced...a talent is like a knack...its something that one has without explanation.

 

[shantideva]

i look at it like this:

there are two kinds of talent: potential and applicable. potential talent is comprised of all of one's resources in a given area of artistry, in this case music. this part of talent is where all the classical training, scale/chord/progression study, theory and composition class come in. this is one's musical knowledge and technical capability.

applicable talent is the ability to use one's potential talent to actually craft a finished product. this is where innovation, creativity, and 'feeling' come in to play. applicable talent is the expression of one's musical knowledge. like verbal vs. reading comprehension on standardized testing. it's one thing to know something, and another thing entirely to tell someone what you know.

i guess i think of 'skill' as being the finesse and fluidity with which someone makes that transition from the technical aspect to the creative aspect.

of course, this has no basis except my own personal connotation, and i don't think that either kind of talent is any more important than the other. just the way i look at it.

 

[the_drip]

Having musical talent is having a natural ability to make music. You can gain technical proficiency through a buttload of practice and proper teachings. If you're talented things will come easier for you than they do a regular joe schmoe.

Song Writing is more of a poetic talent than anythign to do with music. Rappers aren't musicians (respectable ones at least) But you can't deny the talent for finding 1 millions words to rhyme with Bitch and G-unit.

There is Musicality...having the ability to put emotion and musical proficiency into your performances and recordings that requires at least a little talent and ALOT of hard work and determination. A balance between Talent and hard work is ideal.

 

[Manbient]

HOW BOUT BOTH TALENT AND SKILL.

Without having/developing some skill, you can never utilize your talent to its full potential.

You're really not quite reading the question properly, or i didn't explain it properly. We are arguing about what constitutes talent, what it actually MEANS. I am saying musical talent comes in many forms, from one who easily writes well thought out, moving songs (Akerfieldt), to one who learned to play all of malmsteen's tunes after a few short years of playing. He is saying that the word talent has nothing to do with that, and is instead definted by, and only by, the technical skill of the individual. ALSO regardless of how long it took them to get there.

 

[Manbient]

ya also posted it at the POS board

and a few more i want discussion, dammit!

 

[the_3_toed_sloth]

Talent is an ambiguous term that changes based on how you apply it. It doesn't necessarily refer to songwriting ability. And it doesn't necesarily refer to technical skill.

 

[JoeVice]

Rappers aren't musicians (respectable ones at least) But you can't deny the talent for finding 1 millions words to rhyme with Bitch and G-unit.

what? who are you to say that?

 

[Heavenscent]

You cant have one or the other, it has to be both. but if you get too much of th ol skill it ends up with wankery like bodom.

That's bullshit. Many of their songs are well constructed. Try Follow the Reaper, or Hatebreeder.

And i don't think talent surpasses skill. I mean, when you write stuff that's totally brilliant, but you can't play it. I like wankery like batio and all, just because it sounds cool to me.
Skill and songwriting talent go hand in hand for making good music.