Musical Talent: Technical Skill, or Songwriting?

[BrandonS]

I don't have time to read this thread and I must be off, but I just thought I'd state something.. Songwriting skills are much more important than technical skills. You could burst out the uber-est solo in the kingdom of metal, but if your songwriting and arrangements and lyrics and stuff and corny and lame, then everything will suck.

 

[Seth'Peth]

That's bullshit. Many of their songs are well constructed. Try Follow the Reaper, or Hatebreeder.

And i don't think talent surpasses skill. I mean, when you write stuff that's totally brilliant, but you can't play it. I like wankery like batio and all, just because it sounds cool to me.
Skill and songwriting talent go hand in hand for making good music.

Agree about Bodom. I know many here don't like them, but FTR is an excellent album IMO. And I'm not even a huge fan of Laiho's vox, but the music is great and not overdone like some DT.

Seth

 

[Seth'Peth]

I don't consider Bodom wank at all. There's a huge difference between them and DT, first DT will go on and on for 10 minutes wanking...at least the CoB that I own doesn't have a song that long. They keep the solos quick and concise for the most part. And second, I think their solos(guitar and keys) are far better written overall...I still like some DT stuff(as far as technicality), but CoB's solos aren't just speed runs all over the place.

Just my opinion though, I know I won't convince anyone here.

Seth

 

[Kenneth R.]

technical skills are tools. some people possess them, others do not. if all were given such tools, or crafted themselves through hard work, all would be armed with the tools to create beautiful and meaningful music.

though it is possible for all to obtain tools somehow, not all have the vision and artistic hand to utilize those tools to make such amazing things. not all can build strong, beautiful music.

to me, tools are but tools. you cannot build a house out of mere tools, you need material and more importantly craftsmanship. it is the art of music to take what tools you possess and create such works of art. the more meager the tools, if they be nought but even your very hands, increases the intensity of concentration and true talent required to achieve a beautiful piece.

 

[Seth'Peth]

bodom is 4 minutes of wank using extremely basic song structures. it's wank for 14 year olds

Agree to disagree...

Seth

 

[BRI]

Some of my favourite musicians don't even play instruments, so it's all down to songwriting in my opinion.

 

[Ermz]

I hate arguing definitions. It's like trying to insert a concrete definition behind words that are stipulatively defined. The word 'talent' is arbitrary at best. Everyone is inserting their own contextual definitions and nothing moves anywhere, because it's like arguing whether Mortal Kombat 3 is better than oranges.

You can't quantify talent - you can't measure it. Aspects of it may be residually reflected in aspects of someone's life, for example 'He picked up how to play guitar very fast. It was very innate to him.' or 'That song he wrote is very intricate, he has a knack for writing complex melodies.' but in the end it's all bullshit. You can't argue someone is more talented because they shred faster than someone else, just as you can't say that someone else is more talented than the shredder because they write more intricate music. The best you can say is one is more technically inclined and the other is more artistically inclined.

God, I fucking hate the word 'talent'. It should be abolished.

 

[Kenneth R.]

i'm surprised nobody said anything for or against what i said above.

 

[dorian gray]

why is there always this constant comparing and evaluating? why is someone always bashing this or that band? it's subjective. to argue is a waste of time.

 

[Dreadful]

I think Dream Theater and Children of Bodom are good examples of great songwriting and technical playing. Sure they'll play fast and highly skilled solos using both guitar and keyboards, but they don't sacrifise great chorues and riffs/melodies. If you don't notice the memorable parts in most songs if not every song from images and words/awake or hatebreeder, you're really something else. But to respond to this thread...I take songwriting over shredding, or just real technical ability. But when you can involve technical playing AND emotional playing/songwriting...then in my opinion the music is at it's best. You mostly find that in 70s prog anyway, like Camel or ELP.

David Gilmour > Rusty Cooley

 

[Don Corleone]

spot on, dreadful!

 

[Julian Zembrowski]

Well coming from a fellow songwriter I think you need at least some technical prowess and understanding of your instrument to fully be able to express your vision.

 

[Don Corleone]

but the subject at hand is not "some technical prowess," is it? bob dylan is not the greatest guitar player but he's one of the few greatest songwriters ever. he knows how to play and how to write some good guitars over a great vocal melody.

that, for me, is musical ability.

 

[Seth'Peth]

I think Dream Theater and Children of Bodom are good examples of great songwriting and technical playing. Sure they'll play fast and highly skilled solos using both guitar and keyboards, but they don't sacrifise great chorues and riffs/melodies. If you don't notice the memorable parts in most songs if not every song from images and words/awake or hatebreeder, you're really something else. But to respond to this thread...I take songwriting over shredding, or just real technical ability. But when you can involve technical playing AND emotional playing/songwriting...then in my opinion the music is at it's best. You mostly find that in 70s prog anyway, like Camel or ELP.

David Gilmour > Rusty Cooley

I can agree with that. I'm only familiar with CoB's first 3 so far, but most of DT's catalogue. I do find parts from both I do not like, but many I do. They can both shred(wank) amazingly, but also have many well written songs.

Seth

 

[Demoke]

Moonlapse said the word: "innate." In my opinion, "talent" is an inner quality of a person, a "gifted" one with a skill (this talent) which enables this person to excel at something more easily.

I take the example of language teaching because this is what I do. I have a class with 20 students; the theory is the same, and so is the practice; however, there're some people who have a talent for languages and can pick up words and expressions quite easily, whereas others just can't, even if they spent their whole life studying.

I guess it works similarly with music. I would have a talent for music if I could easily create some nice music, if I had a sensibility towards songs, if I could react to them, feel them; I would have talent if I could grasp musical stuff somewhat easily, if I was sitting with my guitar on my lap and coming across nice melodies...

Talent cannot be measured. However, by means of theory and practice (exercise), listening to music, you can polish that talent, train and express yourself a better way. But this wouldn't change your inner quality; you could have as much theory and as much practice... if you're not talented, then it will take you a much much longer way to create something, if you can manage!

 

[Profanity]

A combination of both factors is needed in music although quality of a musician is determined by their ability to play pieces of music on their chosen instrument. Why do you think when you go for music exams they test your ability on playing complicated music and not your songwriting ability?

 

[the_3_toed_sloth]

why is there always this constant comparing and evaluating? why is someone always bashing this or that band? it's subjective. to argue is a waste of time.

If you can back up your thoughts interesting explanations, informed criticisms and incisive analogies, arguing can be a lot of fun, and you can actually learn something.

...Though on this board we prefer to simplify it to "no YOU shut up!"

 

[Profanity]

^ Stop encouraging people to post long messages and waste board resources.

 

[Pseud0]

the person with 30,000 completely irrelevant and terribly unfunny posts commands you!

 

[the_3_toed_sloth]

....so you take offense to someone 'posting uselessly'....with a useless post of your own? Hahahahaha, retards make me laugh.

Stop wasting air Profanity. And if you dont have anything relevant to say to a thread, just dont reply. Some people actually reading what others have to say, and responding to them (semi) seriously.