Musical Talent: Technical Skill, or Songwriting?

[the_3_toed_sloth]

Also, Frusciante's Californication solo is i'd say perfect in every way/

I hate The Chilli Peppers with a passion....so...BORING! How many times are they going to release the same goddamned melody with different words?!

The Chilli Peppers prove how many millions of people can't tell the difference between laid-back and lame.

ps. unfortunately, we are now mortal enemies.

 

[Kenneth R.]

what's wrong with them? clearly "By The Way" is different from "Californication" and "Mother's Milk" or "Blood Sugar Sex Magik". if you think every single song they've done is the same, you might as well say the same for Opeth...

 

[Justin S.]

technical skill bows before song construction, because you can't make a SONG without such ability, even if you are the best band on earth.

Agreed.

 

[Justin S.]

I threw a paper clip at my guitar and it made a better solo than californication

 

[deliverance]

are you really suggesting you could put something better in at that place in that song? because a shred fest would NOT fit, neither would adding too many more notes, because the vibe of the song is melancholy and laid back. The notes that ARE played are brilliantly chosen and played sensitively, just because anyone could play it doesn't mean they could have had the taste and restraint to write it.

Playing the right thing in the right place is something not a lot of guitarists can do, many are way too concerned about showing their chops, at the expense of the song. And that need to show technical skill at every opportunity is counter productive. if someone said it didn't qualify as a guitar *solo*, then fine, but as a fill while the vocals take a back seat, i maintain it's perfect.

yes, i really am suggesting i can put a "solo" that is about 34,000 times better than that shit that's in the song now. and i'm not a good guitarist.

 

[fps]

i am 100% positive i could write a better solo for that song... if only i had some kind of lead-guitar-less karaoke track, i would prove it. but you wouldn't even like it, because you're obviously a frusciante fanboy

i just like the way he plays for the song rather than saying *look at me now, it's time to show you my chops*. the melody of the solo fits perfectly, to me anyway. Dave Gilmour is another one who always plays for the song, his melodies are great.

you are being rather judgemental calling me a fanboy of his, considering you know nothing about me. My fave guitarists include Akerfeldt, Petrucci, Thordendal, Jeff Beck, Trey Azagthoth, Daniel Gildenglow and Buckethead, to name a few. But no, my liking for a simple melody sensitively played clearly marks me out as someone with no taste. (expects this bit to be quote-replied with witty remark) how small-minded is that?

 

[Jon Snow]

I just listened to Californication to see what the fuss was about. I have to agree with the folks saying that the solo is quite miserable. If you want to hear a few well placed notes that were played to fit the song try Hope Leaves.

 

[Botfly]

technical skill bows before song construction, because you can't make a SONG without such ability, even if you are the best band on earth.

Do you mean the most techincally skilled band on earth? Because the best band on earth *can't* be bad at song writing. I mean, they are the best for a reason, no?

 

[Kenneth R.]

Do you mean the most techincally skilled band on earth? Because the best band on earth *can't* be bad at song writing. I mean, they are the best for a reason, no?

yeah thats what i meant.

 

[deliverance]

will ferrell-looking drummer

that drummer has got to be his fucking twin, it's uncanny.

 

[NGC 3370]

I disagree with nearly everyone here. I believe you need to be good at both or the music is not going to be much chop. Maybe I just expect more than most of you guys in my music. It needs to be challenging for me to listen to and to play.
Just my opinion and if you agree or not it matters not.

 

[fps]

this is the thing i noticed the better i got at guitar- i started not respecting stuff if it was easy to play, but i'm over that now

 

[Arasmas]

The word 'talent' is arbitrary at best. It's like arguing whether Mortal Kombat 3 is better than oranges.

dude, oranges are WAY better than mortal kombat 3

 

[RoadKing]

I don't see the two as being either mutually inclusive or exclusive. True "talent" as it pertains to music, for me at least, has more to do with being able to effectively express an image, idea or emotion to the listener through the music.

This can be done with minimal so-called "technical proficiency" (Bob Dylan), or with a high degree of it (Opeth). Individual preferences are entirely subjective, of course, but certainly effective results have been obtained with either end of the spectrum and all points in-between.

My own personal tastes tend to lean more toward a healthy mixture of both, but that said, at the end of the day in my book, I don't give a rat's ass how much "technical proficiency" you do or do not possess, if you don't have the songs, you ain't got shit!

 

[HemeHaci]

First of all we need a universally acknoledged/ratified definiton of "talent" before continuing the discussion. Without a reference point it will be pointless which is what it is I think..

From what I understand the word talent, both of the things you mentioned are different talents.

 

[HemeHaci]

you are being rather judgemental calling me a fanboy of his, considering you know nothing about me. My fave guitarists include Akerfeldt, Petrucci, Thordendal, Jeff Beck, Trey Azagthoth, Daniel Gildenglow and Buckethead, to name a few. But no, my liking for a simple melody sensitively played clearly marks me out as someone with no taste. (expects this bit to be quote-replied with witty remark) how small-minded is that?

I hate being prejudiced, but seeing that guys as your fav guitarist and finding Californication solo perfect dazzled me really.

gess, after Petrucci -- Californication :S

world is really a weird place

 

[wut wut]

You guys realize that you're replying to a 3 and a half year old thread, right?

 

[Taotrac]

Basically, Novembre, are an absolutely amazing band. Emotional, catchy at times, beautiful, and every cd has perfect instrument quality and vocal quality, and is produced amazingly well. They really are what Opeth would sound liek if they were from Italy. Great band. Great songwriting skills. Great 'studio' talent.

But they quite suck dick at any live show they ever performed. Eeither they simply dont have enough members, or they really dont have "playing" talent beyond what a studio can give them. Who cares though, I like the music, not how good they can play at a crappy live show.

 

[Iki-ilkkuja]

Both. I like to compare playing an instrument to talking. When you've the ability to masterfully play your instrument, it's like talking fluently. A good solo = a good speech that touches you.

 

[Koi]

well technically it's only important to be able to master what you write without being restricted by your technical skills blocking your creativity.