n00b drum comp/limit question

[TheToddGreen]

I am currently using Addictive drums for samples. While mixing, my drums weren't cutting through so i used some compression and limitation on them. I was then told that they now seem crammed and that i need to let them breathe, said it sounds i used too much, so i took the limiter off, still sounded cramped, took the master compression off and then it peaked a lot, and i cant find a good middle, when i try it just sounds wierd.... Help?

-Todd

 

[darthjujuu]

post in rate my mix/tone


edit: but you probably just need to bring ALL the faders down, bring kick/snare up til they're peaking at around -5 -6, build the mix around that, and derive loudness from 2bus effects.

 

[TheToddGreen]

I was going to, but im not trying anyone to give feedback on a mix or a tone, im asking for production tips, so therefore i posted in... production tips.

I was thinking about take all the master compression and limitation off the drums, and bring everything down to meet the drums, and then do an overall compression etc to bring the entire mix up? would that work?

 

[colynomial]

You probably don't want to compress/limit the entire drum 2mix heavily. If you're just looking to get some more "punch" out of them, you should compress the snare, slow attack fast release and limit the kick independently. You could also clip the snare to get some more loudness out of it. If you still finding that doing this is squishing things too much, you could do the compression/limiting in parallel, ie. duplicate the track and blend the heavily compressed version with the original or set up a second drum 2mix, squash it, and blend it in with the clean 2mix.

My personal method tends to be compressing snare, limiting kick, and putting a compressor on the 2mix effectively doing nothing more than just batting down some of those stray transients and adding a little bit of "glue".

 

[TheToddGreen]

Ah, hmmm limit the kick? I now need to know how to route my drums to go to different tracks rather than keep it on one track because i think i have to put the limiter in the chain, which effects the entire kit, but there are individual compressors on each kitpiece within the program. thanks for the tips

 

[AerialThesis]

Compression will always come with its artifacts. I you don't like the sound of those artifacts I suggest not using any compression.

 

[TheToddGreen]

hmm, that is a good point. with that said, any tips on another way around having the drums come through in the mix without the entire mix being really quiet?

 

[Morgan C]

Post some clips..

Definitely route all your drums separately. I use Slate, but generally go Snare/Kick/Toms/Cymbals/Room separately, then you can do whatever. If you have any compression on the entire drum bus it should only be 1 or 2dB max, but you can do more if its JUST drums (ie. only close mics, no cymbals). Also experiment with different attack/release times.. sometimes 0 attack can thicken it up, 3ms can be cool, 10ms for some quick snap, or 30ms for the whole body of the attack. Release times depend on how you like the sustain of your drum, and how fast its being played.


Finally, limiters don't help drums cut through, they do the opposite. They take the attack away from drums. They're necessary for getting your loudness, and can sometimes be useful at the start of a snare chain (before any compression), but they'll NEVER help your drums cut through. If you want to get your drums louder without sacrificing punch so much, clipping can help to some degree. But inevitably some punch will be taken away when you get it loud, no matter what you do.


But again, clips and we can provide more specific help.

 

[TheToddGreen]

Post some clips..

Definitely route all your drums separately. I use Slate, but generally go Snare/Kick/Toms/Cymbals/Room separately, then you can do whatever.

Problem, I dont know much about routing drums. I use XLN Addictive. I want SSS but money is the issue there lol. Any tips on how to route drums?

Here's a clip, maybe you can better understand what @TheTrevorStrain was talking about when he said crammed and i need to let them breathe.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6329133/threaddrumtest.mp3

 

[Morgan C]

Problem, I dont know much about routing drums. I use XLN Addictive. I want SSS but money is the issue there lol. Any tips on how to route drums?

Here's a clip, maybe you can better understand what @TheTrevorStrain was talking about when he said crammed and i need to let them breathe.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6329133/threaddrumtest.mp3

I don't have Addictive Drums, but I'm positive its possible to route them. Search on google for some tuts or something.

But yeah those drums need to come up. The cymbals are pumping a lot (common problem with AD, dunno why), and you can barely hear the drums. Would like to hear that mix without guitars/bass, and raising the drums about 5db and leaving the cymbals where they are.

 

[professorlamp]

Problem, I dont know much about routing drums. I use XLN Addictive. I want SSS but money is the issue there lol. Any tips on how to route drums?

 

[TheToddGreen]

@professorlamp that shows me nothing. i know where the button is.. but i dont know how to route them seperately and send them here and there and stuff

@Morgan C thanks. ill look through google, always a good source, ill post a clip in a couple hours (running late for class) of just the drums, then a new drum/guitar mix (dunno if itll be drums coming up or guitars going down bc drums like to clip/peak without compression)

EDIT: my drums are pretty high as far as volume faders go, ummm with that said, whats the best way to mimick the sound of bringing their faders up to meet cymbals? raise the master and lower the room? raise master and lower overheads? im confused. theres also a bus channel that does nothing as of now... poor me

 

[nwright]

instead of trying to bring the drums up to make them as loud as everything else, why not bring everything else back down so the drums have a chance to peak through the mix? Also, bring the cymbals down in volume as well. You can recover the lost volume during mastering or throwing a pseudo "mastering" chain onto the master 2 bus. You can also parallel compress the drum bus, compress the drums themselves, etc. to give more punch.

An unmastered mix can be REALLY quiet. IMO it's a leap to try and get a regular ol' mix up to competitive "professional" volume levels with material that isn't mastered and have the mix sound nice and balanced...Especially if this stuff is new to you.

 

[professorlamp]

Well to send them here and there etc...
Once you've clicked the button
a big list of all the kit pieces that were there before should now be enabled next to all the other audio/MIDI tracks and then you just treat it like normal audio, remember to turn off all effects,compression etc in AD though otherwise it'll sound gash.

 

[TheToddGreen]

Well to send them here and there etc...
Once you've clicked the button
a big list of all the kit pieces that were there before should now be enabled next to all the other audio/MIDI tracks and then you just treat it like normal audio, remember to turn off all effects,compression etc in AD though otherwise it'll sound gash.

So turn them all off and then turn them on with the seperate buses?

 

[smy1]

Todd: http://www.xlnaudio.com/downloads/manuals/addictive-drums-manual-english.pdf

 

[professorlamp]

So turn them all off and then turn them on with the seperate buses?

yes

turn all FX and processing in AD OFF and all fx and processing that you're going to use can take place on the drum tracks within your DAW