Nazism and Black Metal

when the Norwegian brand of Black Metal started up Norway in the late 80's part of its inital idelogy was to offer a more uncommerical and more hate filled from of extreme music than that which was already on offer. Eurymous whenever possible poured disdain on the Grind/death acts of that time , as they wore their own clothes and in some cases adopted a a left wing anti goverment stance. he despised this as he thought underground music should be anti-mainstream in every way and should shock and enitce people via its antisocial image.

To this end those bands within Euroymous sphere of influence adopted satanic and later Facistic overtones purely as shock tactics to prove their extremeness (the same could be said fro the church burnings and other crimes). Only Virkenes was ever really Nazi, the others just played along until it became unprofitable to do so.

Look at the transvilanian hunger fiasco, the statement on the back of sleeve ("any one who criticises this recording should be patronsied for his jewish behaviour") was more a badly staged pubilcity coup than a real stament of right wing intent. the grovelling and somewhat unheartfelt aoplgly (somehow i doubt that Jew is another word for Jerk in Norway) showed that when push came to shove most Black Metal bands dabbling in facism would follow the dollar instead of the swazitka.

apart from Burzum and Graveland most NSBM bands are 14th rate Mayhem/Darkthrone clones who realise no noe would buy their records if they didnt shout about the typical contraversial subjects over the top of their weak as piss plagarisms of freezing moon and transilvanian hunger.

in the end, NSBM is the eqivulant of Bowie doing the hitler salute to a crowd of journalists or Wattie Buchan having a Swaztika tattoed onto his back: blantant attention seeking by breaking the ultimate taboo of western soicety.
 
kollex said:
Look at the transvilanian hunger fiasco, the statement on the back of sleeve ("any one who criticises this recording should be patronsied for his jewish behaviour")
Let me guess, you don't own "Transilvanian Hunger," do you?

Other than that, to claim that all NSBM bands today adopt NS idologies because of shock value is fucking retarded.
 
yes Kollex.
First of my Name is perfect.Ultimate Metal have nothing fucking Underground.I bet you can buy all the bands here in a normal record store.So this Underground support stuff is BULLSHIT.
Now on to the NSBM.I Suppose you never heard any other other NSBM then Burzum and Graveland?The scene have many Original and good bands like Gontyna Kry,Fullmoon,Ohtar,Bilskirnir,Seigneur Voland,Capricornus,Infernum.

So take your ignorant newbie mind somewhere else.
 
well UM=Mainstream_supportnr1 (if you hate this site then why do you bother coming here) I have heard quite a bit of NSBM ranging from the average ( Legion of Doom;basically Bergtatt by Ulver mixed with a bit of Mayhem, pleasant enough but without the specialness of those two acts, you wouldnt really buy it if it wasn't NSBM) to the Piss poor (Thunderbolt:if I someone whose can play bass a bit but has never touched guitar and drums attempted to make a BM album in 45 minutes whilst slightly drunk then sons of darkness would be the result)

the only thing linking NSBM in my my mind (aprt from the NSBM lyrical subject of course) was the fact no one would have bought the majority of it if they sung about anythnig else

oh and strictally speaking based on amount of posts and when we both signed up your really more "newbie" than me
 
oh and Phyre I do have Transilvanan hunger (and a fine record it is too) it dosent have that slogan as after they grovelling press realease they decided to scrap that slogan on future reprintings
and the only other reason I can think of that NSBM are NSBM apart from shock value is they are retarded tools of the far right.
 
It's not about being scary, this is their ideology. Have you actually heard "Thousand Swords" by Graveland or "Heidentum" by Wolfnacht? Perhaps best of all Astrofaes? Apparently not or you'd admit that some of these bands have talent. 99% of NS bands are absurdly underground, it isn't for publicity.

There's the false idea that the perfect implementation of NS was the Third Reich. Essentially fascism is a society based on natural order.

Ravnanger, you're nothing but a hypocrite. If I can hate Christianity why can't I hate the people who spawned Christ?
 
It's just that some of these bands are based on angry concepts - and there's nothing more angry in the world than the sheer hate for those that don't look like you. This hate coincides with your pride for what you are - and together it's one big pile of shit.

I don't know, but it's EASIER to feel pride for shit you DIDN'T achieve. And pride for shit you really SHOULD feel grateful for ('cause it's better to be born in Europe than in some struggling African country where you'd die from hunger before you get 10 - we all know that). But at the end of the day it's all a big steaming pile of bullshit from people that amount to NOTHING individually (that's why in a herd these people feel mighty and important, when individually they are anything but).

I find nazism nauseating. Well - I find any violent form of patriotism as nauseating - but nazism was the one that actually did some very atrocious shit - and with all my cynicism I cannot take that atrocious shit for granted. Not to mention that most of this atrocious shit DIDN'T make any sense.

I don't know, it's weird... I find it EVEN MORE nauseating when a band from a country like Russia (anyone heard of Korrozia Metalla?) starts doing this Nazi shit.. All Russian skinheads "can prove" that Russians are just as Aryan as Germans, etc., - oblivious to the fact that this is just as blasphemous as blacks joining the KKK. I find it also pathetic that the Russian nazis decided to adopt the ideology that essentially called them "inhuman" instead of thinking of something unique and.. well, Russian. There was a Ukrainian skinhead-sympathiser on these boards from Israel, by the way. So I guess it can get even stupider :). Not by much, though..
 
kollez said:
oh and Phyre I do have Transilvanan hunger (and a fine record it is too) it dosent have that slogan as after they grovelling press realease they decided to scrap that slogan on future reprintings
*BZZZT* Wrong again. The original pressing said "Norsk Arisk Black Metal" on the back, which means "Norwegian Aryan Black Metal" -- this has indeed been removed on the Peaceville re-presses. The quote you mention has never been printed on any record, it WAS, however, said by Fenriz in an interview. "Transilvanian Hunger is beyond criticism, and any man who attempts to do so should be thoroughly patronized for his obviously jewish behaviour."
kollex said:
and the only other reason I can think of that NSBM are NSBM apart from shock value is they are retarded tools of the far right.
I have the feeling you don't know enough about NS to be speaking about this.
 
Shell Shock said:
I don't know, it's weird... I find it EVEN MORE nauseating when a band from a country like Russia (anyone heard of Korrozia Metalla?) starts doing this Nazi shit.. All Russian skinheads "can prove" that Russians are just as Aryan as Germans, etc., - oblivious to the fact that this is just as blasphemous as blacks joining the KKK.
Aside from the aryan supremacy/anti-semitic parts, NS could be applied to just about any race/folk. I do agree that it is strange how neo-nazis in Russia, South America, just about everywhere in the world try their very best to prove their "aryan" heritage, and even stranger how neo-nazis from Germanic parts of the world generally seem to actually accept them.

What one must take into consideration, however, was that Hitler himself wasn't necessarily all that discriminating or historically correct when it came to defining who was "aryan" and who was not.
 
phyre said:
Aside from the aryan supremacy/anti-semitic parts, NS could be applied to just about any race/folk. I do agree that it is strange how neo-nazis in Russia, South America, just about everywhere in the world try their very best to prove their "aryan" heritage, and even stranger how neo-nazis from Germanic parts of the world generally seem to actually accept them.

What one must take into consideration, however, was that Hitler himself wasn't necessarily all that discriminating or historically correct when it came to defining who was "aryan" and who was not.
Of course not. He had a general idea - and that's it.. Some parts of this "idea" were influenced strongly by certain interests (don't tell me the Japanese are Aryans now, as well.. Iran and Iraq were supposed to be in this "coalition" later)


From the whole "Aryan" theology, Persians are Aryans. Chechens are Aryans.. A lot of dark-skinned peoples are Aryans - and it kinda baffles the white supremacists. So some of them deny it ever was the case, some ignore it..

As far as accepting them.. It's easier for Nazis to accept the British, the Spanish, the Italians (even though they're not purely white as they are) and even the South Americans (those that are white, anyways) than it is to accept Russians, who clearly were stated as subhuman.. Argentina has been the refuge for many Nazi criminals, for instance - they take pride in their European ancestry. Russia's different.. I have noticed that a lot of Germans (both neo-Nazis and just normal people) actually scoff at this idea of Russian Neo-Nazism.. So I'm not so sure that they necessarily accept it.. but, hey, why not, eh? They're dreaming of reviving the Nazi ideology in practice - might as well have some allies, right?
 
Shell Shock said:
I have noticed that a lot of Germans (both neo-Nazis and just normal people) actually scoff at this idea of Russian Neo-Nazism.. So I'm not so sure that they necessarily accept it.. but, hey, why not, eh? They're dreaming of reviving the Nazi ideology on practice - might as well have some allies, right?
At least in the NSBM "scene," bands such as Nokturnal Mortum, Aryan Terrorism (Ukrainan NSBM,) Graveland and Veles (Polish NSBM) are generally accepted. Among neo-nazis I've seen both views, although I don't know very much about the current "neo-nazi underground."

I suppose, like you say, that they aren't too discriminating about who their friends are until they achieve the Nazi World Order (hah.) Maybe after that they can start killing off the Russians... Just like Hitler.
 
phyre said:
At least in the NSBM "scene," bands such as Nokturnal Mortum, Aryan Terrorism (Ukrainan NSBM,) Graveland and Veles (Polish NSBM) are generally accepted. Among neo-nazis I've seen both views, although I don't know very much about the current "neo-nazi underground."

I suppose, like you say, that they aren't too discriminating about who their friends are until they achieve the Nazi World Order (hah.) Maybe after that they can start killing off the Russians... Just like Hitler.
What do you mean "after"? The Germans invaded and immediately started the carnage - of course Jews were more systematically persecuted, but millions of people just died.. Actually, this has been one of the biggest Nazi blunders - a lot of Russians (and especially Ukrainians) considered the Germans as liberators.. And yet when they invaded Ukraine they started killing everybody off without any consideration.. I mean, we had a ROA division - Russian Liberation Army, pro-Nazi dividion, but it was very insignificant..

Some Ukrainians were willing to live under the Nazi regime as long as it would liberate them from the Soviet regime - but nobody appeared to put any thought into that in Vehrmacht..