NIGHTWISH: Endless Forms Most Beautiful

I saw the Friday Show in Cleveland and all 3 of us in our group left feeling a bit underwelmed by the Nightwish performance. I've seen After Forever and Tarja era Nightwish so I had high expectations and walked away feeling somewhat disappointed. Part of that because more than 1/3 of the set was new songs and while I really liked several of the songs on the new release at times I felt like the songs get lost within themselves. I think the other problem was that very little of my favorite era was barely represented (Century CHild and Once). Everdream and Ghost Love Score were the only 2 songs from that era.

As for the new release, I love the 1st three songs on the release but felt like they could have done more with Floors vocals. Heck , even live she seemed somewhat restrained.
 
I've gotten a chance to listen to the album a few times now, and overall, I just don't find it very strong. Don't get me wrong, I love Floor's singing, but like most on here have noticed, it's not as strong as we'd like.

The songs are largely forgettable for me. I've been listening to the band since Oceanborn, and there was never a time when I'd have considered their songs forgettable. The Greatest Show is really a strong song, but while I can appreciate the message, the monologues just kill it for me. I dig Dawkins and all, but having all that breaks up for me what would have been an epic masterpiece. The rest...I honestly can't think back to any of them in particular. That says something. I can't say this will end up in any regular rotation.
 
Just echoing the same sentiments as many here....

Spent the weekend with the album, and it's just not on par with where I expect Nightwish to be. Musically it's just a continuation of the last two albums (which I have no problem with) except that the songs are starting to sound very rehashed, or like extras from the cutting room floor of the last couple discs. There isn't any single song that just JUMPS out, and the ones that come the closes sound too similar to other songs from the recent catalogue....

As for Floor..... Yeah, she just doesn't sound like herself here. She never gets out of second gear, and never comes close to her potential. This easily could have been sung by Annette instead, and doesn't bring any of Floor's unique characteristics (strength of vocals, POWER!!!) to the table.

Very underwhelmed. If I had not heard the last two discs, and had not heard Floor, I would enjoy this a LOT more, but knowing where the players come from, this is not a strong effort on many fronts.
 
So I'm feeling like maybe I should give it until the next album to try to get into Nightwish again? Not exactly glowing endorsements overall, here.
 
Mardoch said:
So I'm feeling like maybe I should give it until the next album to try to get into Nightwish again? Not exactly glowing endorsements overall, here.
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My general feeling from listening to the album a couple of times is a band very comfortable with the direction they are going in. They have found a new equilibrium and are perfectly happy in following it. Floor's presence doesn't really change much of anything, which I guess should be expected. That being said, there is little that is truly outstanding. So far, there is nothing on here that I think I'll be coming back to years later. I also think that The Greatest Show On Earth probably would have been a better song with about half of it cut out. As it stands, I think the best songs on the album are Weak Fantasy and Edema Ruh.

Course, my opinion can change, but I don't expect it to. It is a solid album, but it doesn't exactly break new ground or push the boundaries much from the past couple of albums. If you liked the last couple, you probably will like this one. If you didn't, there isn't much here to change your mind.
 
Course, my opinion can change, but I don't expect it to. It is a solid album, but it doesn't exactly break new ground or push the boundaries much from the past couple of albums. If you liked the last couple, you probably will like this one. If you didn't, there isn't much here to change your mind.
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Exactly. It's not a BAD album at any level. It's not like when I first heard "Hear in the Now Frontier" back in the day, and threw it across the room. If this were from another band, I'd give it high marks as it is very solid...... BUT..... The bar for Nightwish is set much higher. They have blown me away with the last five albums, so to hear something that is not at that same level, when you KNOW they can deliver the goods is just a letdown.

Personally (and I hope I am wrong) I am expecting something similar from Kamelot in two weeks.
 
Someone else mentioned this, and I have to agree that we do hold Nightwish up to a higher standard. I just bought this album, and have listened to it four times. It is a very creative and ambitious album, and while Wishmaster is my favorite I do not dislike how the band has changed. I did like Dark Passion Play, Imaginarium, and Showtime, Storytime. This album is also pretty good, and I'm glad I bought it. While there are a couple of weak tracks on it, my main problem is with the last track, "The Greatest Show on Earth". A good song is similar to a mini-skirt: Long enough to cover the subject, and short enough to be interesting. This doesn't mean I don't like longer songs, but "The Greatest Show on Earth" way way too long for what it covers. It doesn't sound cohesive to me, but rather more like bits and pieces patched together with bondo. I get that Tuomas was trying to do something epic, but what results in my opinion is an epic fail. With the animal sounds around the 11 minute mark and the sounds effects and prose in the closing minutes I'm left thinking Tuomas must have slipped on a banana and hit his head on something. Do you really want to hear a bunch of cheesy sound effects and a sermon from the likes of Dawkins and Darwin? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and nothing more. If I could tell Tuomas one thing, it would be to spare us the preaching, brother, and just get down and play us some more music.

Edit: A friend just pointed this out to me, and I think he nailed it. In "The Greatest Show on Earth", right after the animal sounds, at the 12 minute mark the song picks up again and is basically a repackaged "Storytime". As he said to me: "Someone's running out of ideas."

Check it out:

"The Greatest Show on Earth" at the 12 minute mark: https://youtu.be/IJb3xwtpmmc?t=714
"Storytime" at the 24 second mark: https://youtu.be/T5i7htF2AwY?t=24
 
So my take on this is that this IS the Nightwish sound now. They don't want or need to go back to the operatic symphonic style of their first set of albums. From DPP to now, no one else sounds like Nightwish and when you hear it you will know who this is. Which is what they were originally, until everyone jumped on the bandwagon, and we got a million (maybe not that many) Tarja clones. The question/problem/breakdown now is....in a few years will we have bands coming out that sound like THIS style of Nightwish? Probably not. That's the disconnect.

Personally I really like this album. And I give Tuomas enough credit that he meant to carry forward the themes and stylistic choices from previous albums. It feels like an evolution to me, personally, from DPP to this album.
 
espz said:
So my take on this is that this IS the Nightwish sound now. They don't want or need to go back to the operatic symphonic style of their first set of albums. From DPP to now, no one else sounds like Nightwish and when you hear it you will know who this is. Which is what they were originally, until everyone jumped on the bandwagon, and we got a million (maybe not that many) Tarja clones. The question/problem/breakdown now is....in a few years will we have bands coming out that sound like THIS style of Nightwish? Probably not. That's the disconnect.

Personally I really like this album. And I give Tuomas enough credit that he meant to carry forward the themes and stylistic choices from previous albums. It feels like an evolution to me, personally, from DPP to this album.
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While I agree that they still sound like Nightwish, I personally think they came closer to the pack rather than continuing to seperate themselves. To be honest, there were never that many Tarja clones. In fact, Xandria were notable because they had switched to more of a classic Nightwish-styled sound because there really wasn't anyone else doing it, including Nightwish.

I'm not saying they should do anything but what they are doing. Obviously, they are making the music they want to make. It doesn't mean I have to like it, tho.
 
nailz said:
Yes. Brilliant people talking is always fun to listen to.
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Then you'll love this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q6E4J433R4

Edit: Nightwish is one of my favorite artists. I have all of their albums, and I'm going to see them in a couple of weeks. I bought tickets the hour they became available last fall. I love the melodies they play, and the composition of the songs is usually excellent. Their new age religion woven throughout their lyrics is something I tolerate, but don't agree with. I tolerate it because the music and composition more than offset the lyrical content. "The Greatest Show on Earth" is an exception. I might even be able to tolerate the lack of cohesion and the blatant repackaging of "Storytime" right in the middle of it except for one thing. The prose, the animal noises, and the excessive sound effects are the tipping point for me. Had the song been shortened to about 10 or 12 minutes of just music with perhaps 8 or 10 seconds of prose at the start as was done with "Shudder Before the Beautiful" it would have made it much better. Nightwish is a great band, but they are not perfect and even they can miss the mark. The fact that this is a 24 minute song makes it a pretty big miss for me. The rest of the album is fairly solid, and I do like they way Floor's vocals sound. What a golden voice she has.
 
nailz said:
Just come out and say you hate the song because you don't believe in Evolution and be a man about it.
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Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. That is not what I'm saying at all, but since you brought it up... I do believe no man has any clue how we came to be. We seem to be the product of a long evolutionary process, but what started the process? Can there be cause without first cause?

As good as Nightwish is, I believe they are human and therefore capable of error. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one my friend. After all, it is music and not mathematics.
 
nailz said:
Yes. Brilliant people talking is always fun to listen to.
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I enjoy this as well, when public speaking is the medium in which it's presented. It's not really what I'm looking for in a metal album.

Seems a lot of people take issue with the fluff in the 24 minute track. I've been toying with the idea doing a cut-to-the-chase edit of the track just to see if it makes it more enjoyable to listen to.

EDIT: so I did the short version and without the spoken word and animal noises it shortens down to 15 minutes of actual song. I fade it after the climax of "we were here" and cut all the orchestra and spoken word at the end.
 
steel_templar said:
Well I'll be a monkey's uncle. That is not what I'm saying at all
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Well, then I definitely misinterpreted what you were saying and I apologize, and I'm not ignoring your question, I just think it's got too much potential to derail everything.

EDIT: so I did the short version and without the spoken word and animal noises it shortens down to 15 minutes of actual song. I fade it after the climax of "we were here" and cut all the orchestra and spoken word at the end.
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I'd be interested in hearing it without the first 5 minutes of lead in or the animal sounds in the middle.
 
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