Nobody expects the Spanish revolution

LeSedna said:
Care to explain what it is ? I've not heard about it at all ?
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13437819

I gotta say that even if they're comparing them to Egypt's protests, they're not similar at all. And the BBC says they were only 2000 in Madrid when we were thousands and thousands in more than 40 cities in Spain.

Now they are camping there to protest about the police reaction on Sunday.
 
Here you got the manifesto:


We are ordinary people. We are like you: people, who get up every morning to study, work or find a job, people who have family and friends. People, who work hard every day to provide a better future for those around us.
Some of us consider ourselves progressive, others conservative. Some of us are believers, some not. Some of us have clearly defined ideologies, others are apolitical, but we are all concerned and angry about the political, economic, and social outlook which we see around us: corruption among politicians, businessmen, bankers, leaving us helpless, without a voice.

This situation has become normal, a daily suffering, without hope. But if we join forces, we can change it. It’s time to change things, time to build a better society together. Therefore, we strongly argue that:

  • The priorities of any advanced society must be equality, progress, solidarity, freedom of culture, sustainability and development, welfare and people’s happiness.
  • These are inalienable truths that we should abide by in our society: the right to housing, employment, culture, health, education, political participation, free personal development, and consumer rights for a healthy and happy life.
  • The current status of our government and economic system does not take care of these rights, and in many ways is an obstacle to human progress.
  • Democracy belongs to the people (demos = people, krátos = government) which means that government is made of every one of us. However, in Spain most of the political class does not even listen to us. Politicians should be bringing our voice to the institutions, facilitating the political participation of citizens through direct channels that provide the greatest benefit to the wider society, not to get rich and prosper at our expense, attending only to the dictatorship of major economic powers and holding them in power through a bipartidism headed by the immovable acronym PP & PSOE.
  • Lust for power and its accumulation in only a few; create inequality, tension and injustice, which leads to violence, which we reject. The obsolete and unnatural economic model fuels the social machinery in a growing spiral that consumes itself by enriching a few and sends into poverty the rest. Until the collapse.
  • The will and purpose of the current system is the accumulation of money, not regarding efficiency and the welfare of society. Wasting resources, destroying the planet, creating unemployment and unhappy consumers.
  • Citizens are the gears of a machine designed to enrich a minority which does not regard our needs. We are anonymous, but without us none of this would exist, because we move the world.
  • If as a society we learn to not trust our future to an abstract economy, which never returns benefits for the most, we can eliminate the abuse that we are all suffering.
  • We need an ethical revolution. Instead of placing money above human beings, we shall put it back to our service. We are people, not products. I am not a product of what I buy, why I buy and who I buy from.

For all of the above, I am outraged.
I think I can change it.
I think I can help.
I know that together we can.I think I can help.

I know that together we can.
 
I don't understand what specifically the protesters want. That manifesto is very vague. What exactly do they want their government to do?

It sounds like they want Spain to become a complete socialist state isloated from rest of the world wide economy. I think that would be a disaster for any country. How else can a government have control over job availibility and the market price of goods and housing?

The request for politicians that are not corrupt seems a bit naive also. They are in office because people vote them in. Same thing in America, we have lots of scumbags in government because we keep voting them in.

Why don't we stop? Because nobody would vote for some one that spoke the truth. For instance the only way America can balance it's budget is to cut spending on entitlment programs and military spending, and raise taxes. The voters don't want to hear that. So we keep voting for people that will tell us what we want to hear even though it is false.
 
midget donkeys said:
I don't understand what specifically the protesters want. That manifesto is very vague. What exactly do they want their government to do?

It sounds like they want Spain to become a complete socialist state isloated from rest of the world wide economy. I think that would be a disaster for any country. How else can a government have control over job availibility and the market price of goods and housing?

The request for politicians that are not corrupt seems a bit naive also. They are in office because people vote them in. Same thing in America, we have lots of scumbags in government because we keep voting them in.
Click to expand...

So you have to vote between a kick in the balls or a bite in your dick.
You assume there is nothing more to do, you accept it and that's all?
That is conformism.

Governments want people not to think, just watch tv, eat, breath and shit.
 
So what are their demands? Impeachment? End of monarchy (even if parliamentary) would be a nice first step.
Or are they just super pissed like the poor people of France a couple years ago?
 
You misunderstand me Jevil, I don't mean that it is good that bad politicians are continually elected.

I understand that the Spanish protesters are angry (though I am not that well informed on the specific issues they are angry about). They probably have good reason to be. But if some one does not like the way a law or program is they should give an alternative.

For instance workers wages. If the goal is to raise them, how does the government go about doing this? Through a minimum wage? By dictating the wages for different jobs to private sector companies? Or by public education that gives people the skills to get new higher paying jobs than their old ones? And how much ability does the government really have to control the economy?

Simply yelling "I am angry!" doesn't get any closer to solving any problems. People need to say "I am angry about this particular problem and here is my solution...."
 
midget donkeys said:
You misunderstand me Jevil, I don't mean that it is good that bad politicians are continually elected.

I understand that the Spanish protesters are angry (though I am not that well informed on the specific issues they are angry about). They probably have good reason to be. But if some one does not like the way a law or program is they should give an alternative.

For instance workers wages. If the goal is to raise them, how does the government go about doing this? Through a minimum wage? By dictating the wages for different jobs to private sector companies? Or by public education that gives people the skills to get new higher paying jobs than their old ones? And how much ability does the government really have to control the economy?

Simply yelling "I am angry!" doesn't get any closer to solving any problems. People need to say "I am angry about this particular problem and here is my solution...."
Click to expand...

There's where the daily assembly in each city takes part.

We already have minimum wages, here is 750 before taxes, in France is 1400, but the prices in Spain are not half the price in France. It's only a example of how the things are here.
 
I would interested in hearing what the daily assemblies come up with. As I said before I don't live in Spain so I don't know the problems there.

I did visit for three weeks about 12 years ago or so before the Euro was around and thought it was really great. I didn't see how the poor people live though.
 
Stoked with all the people who stand up! It's becoming bigger and bigger and contagious: now many european countries are starting to protest against the neo-liberal politics too.
 
Guy #1: Revolutions main weapon is Surprise
Guy #2: and Fear

Guy #1: Yes Fear.. Surprise and Fear, Our two main weapons are Fear and Surprise.
Guy #2: and Ruthless Efficiency

Guy #1: Quite.. Our three main weapons are Fear, Surprise, and Ruthless Efficiency.
Guy #3: And an almost Fanatical Devotion to the Pope.

Guy #1: Right! Amongst our weaponry are Fear, Surprise, Ruthless Efficiency and an almost Fanatical Devotion to the Pope...
Guy #2: And Nice Red Uniforms..

Guy #1: Oh Shut Up!


EDIT-Disclaimer: I realize this is a serious subject, but I couldn't help myself, no offense was meant :D
 
midget donkeys said:
The request for politicians that are not corrupt seems a bit naive also. They are in office because people vote them in.
Click to expand...

Laws here are made so actually only 2 political groups can win and control the country.

This is the young people complaining about the situation. There are no jobs, a hughe amount of people is unemployed. Even people with masters and engineerings can't find a job.
The jobs you can find are just bullshit, they know we're all screwed, so they pay less than they should for more work.

We're tired of shitty politicians and bankers, they raise their payments, they are getting all the money, and then they have to fire a lot of people because "there's not enough money".
Most politicians are corrupted, it was discovered that one accepted suits (yeah, fucking suits) as payments from companies and employers interested in some deals. A lot of politicians are being investigated right now because of corruption, but they keep acting as always, like they are untouchable and we are just idiots who have to give them our money.

This sunday will be council elections, that's why this movement choose this week to protest.
Now the goverment is trying to forbid people to be at places like Plaza Catalunya in Barcelona, or Plaza del Sol in Madrid. Maybe tomorrow or saturday we will have riots when police decide to kick the protesters out of there.

That's the way they want to solve this things, just kicking and hitting people, making them run away or arresting them.


Young people in spain can't even think about buying a house in the future, we can't see it possible, the prices are too high, there are no jobs and the salaries are just bullshit.

And now Angela Merkel says that people in Spain have too many vacations. Yeah...also our salaries are half of the german ones, but a house is twice the price!
And they pretend they don't know why we are angry?
 
Ashgarth said:
Laws here are made so actually only 2 political groups can win and control the country.

This is the young people complaining about the situation. There are no jobs, a hughe amount of people is unemployed. Even people with masters and engineerings can't find a job.
The jobs you can find are just bullshit, they know we're all screwed, so they pay less than they should for more work.

We're tired of shitty politicians and bankers, they raise their payments, they are getting all the money, and then they have to fire a lot of people because "there's not enough money".
Most politicians are corrupted, it was discovered that one accepted suits (yeah, fucking suits) as payments from companies and employers interested in some deals. A lot of politicians are being investigated right now because of corruption, but they keep acting as always, like they are untouchable and we are just idiots who have to give them our money.

This sunday will be council elections, that's why this movement choose this week to protest.
Now the goverment is trying to forbid people to be at places like Plaza Catalunya in Barcelona, or Plaza del Sol in Madrid. Maybe tomorrow or saturday we will have riots when police decide to kick the protesters out of there.

That's the way they want to solve this things, just kicking and hitting people, making them run away or arresting them.


Young people in spain can't even think about buying a house in the future, we can't see it possible, the prices are too high, there are no jobs and the salaries are just bullshit.

And now Angela Merkel says that people in Spain have too many vacations. Yeah...also our salaries are half of the german ones, but a house is twice the price!
And they pretend they don't know why we are angry?
Click to expand...


This is the fucking reality......

Fuck the system.
 
As an example, a big spanish phone company called movistar announced they were going to fire 5000 employees, clayming they had losses and no money to pay this guys, so they are going to kick them and pay them just 20 days for every year worked as a compensation, instead of the usual 45 days per year.

Then it was discovered than some of this company managers got 450.000.000€ for them...
 
Now it's official, the spanish election board decided to forbid the people to protest on saturday and sunday...
As always, they will end a pacific protest with cops trying to arrest everyone, or at least shooting plastic balls at protesters and hitting them as much as they can.
 
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