Obama picks Rick Warren to give invocation

[Ender Rises]

Tough talk coming from the dude who couldn't remember the Proposition's name. I actually agree with you in the statement that more people need to get off their asses and get involved. Political apathy is ruining this country. Unfortunately, it's extremely difficult to get people interested unless it directly affects them.

 

[Death Aflame]

Tough talk coming from the dude who couldn't remember the Proposition's name. I actually agree with you in the statement that more people need to get off their asses and get involved. Political apathy is ruining this country. Unfortunately, it's extremely difficult to get people interested unless it directly affects them.

I know it is no excuse, but I am Canadian, so I don't have the same exposure to stuff like that as you guys do (gay marriage has been legal here for a few years now).

 

[Ender Rises]

I am Canadian

I didn't know that. Your country has their heads on somewhat straight. So yeah, good job.

 

[Zephyrus]

Tough talk coming from the dude who couldn't remember the Proposition's name. I actually agree with you in the statement that more people need to get off their asses and get involved. Political apathy is ruining this country. Unfortunately, it's extremely difficult to get people interested unless it directly affects them.

Political apathy is the nature of the majority of any nation's citizens at any point in the history of human civilization. We started envisioning ideal societies as soon as societies got to the point where human nature conflicted with an idea of justice higher than a state of nature. A realist sees that human nature will ultimately win out.

 

[Zephyrus]

I know it is no excuse, but I am Canadian, so I don't have the same exposure to stuff like that as you guys do (gay marriage has been legal here for a few years now).

This explains why many of us see your views as unrealistic, because they live in a society not so liberally advanced as your own. In Canada, what you consider somewhat liberal may be considered incredibly radical to more conservative societies such as even the US.

In other words, the fact that your own society takes milestones like gay marriage for granted leaves room for you to envision even further challenges to the prevailing paradigm.

 

[Death Aflame]

That the entire fucking span of history has PROVEN that paradigms shift gradually. It's that simple. There will always be radicals and/or idealists such as yourself presenting the pressure toward a more liberal society.

What's this have to do with getting actively involved in political discourses? Yes the powers are slow to change, and tons of minor battles have to be fought and won in succession for change to come about, but this all goes without saying.

My original question to you was merely regarding how you view active participation (beyond voting), which you have yet to answer directly, or at maybe I haven't understood what you're getting at.

But rather than presenting an immediate option to convert an international superpower, it's this pressure that keeps the MAJORITY moderates voting for the more liberal of two candidates in a two-party system.

Maybe it is just me, but I don't understand what you are trying to argue here.

The reason we have a two-party system is that the simplest choice a person can make is between TWO options. Most people are apprehensive to radical change, either that they prefer to maintain the status quo (conservative) or make a small shift (liberal), which if it goes wrong will be easier to reverse. That will always be the case.

or here.

human nature

I'd be careful assuming that you have knowledge of what exactly this is.

 

[Zephyrus]

My original question to you was merely regarding how you view active participation (beyond voting), which you have yet to answer directly, or at maybe I haven't understood what you're getting at.

I never actively participated beyond voting, which is the case for the overwhelming majority of voters. I could be more active, and I believe that the more people who are active, the better chances a "change" candidate will get elected.

But the number of people who are "active" is only a function of how effective the current administration was. The Bush administration seemed defective to the majority of this country (as proven by Bush's approval rating), and thus a larger number of people became "politically active".

People, regardless of their core platforms, will demonstrate in proportion as the current powers-that-be differ from their own position.

 

[Zephyrus]

I'd be careful assuming that you have knowledge of what exactly this is.

It's called the bystander effect. 99% of people in a society will assume that forces beyond their control will take care of things politically and economically. So when the choice is left up to them, they are more likely to go along with the perceived popular choice (a Democrat or Republican) than some obscure third-party radical.

 

[Death Aflame]

I understand now. Thanks for clearing that up.

It's called the bystander effect. 99% of people in a society will assume that forces beyond their control will take care of things politically and economically. So when the choice is left up to them, they are more likely to go along with the perceived popular choice (a Democrat or Republican) than some obscure third-party radical.

There are so many assumptions going on with this statement that I don't even know where to begin. So I won't, suffice to say that calling the 'bystander effect'--a social psychological term no less--human nature or some equivalent thereof seems ridiculous in my view.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

lol at the hegemonic media of evil doom controlling the brains of the people. Because no one uses the internet to look up things or fact check. Nice generalizations/assumptions, Canadabro.

 

[Death Aflame]

lol at the hegemonic media of evil doom controlling the brains of the people. Because no one uses the internet to look up things or fact check. Nice generalizations/assumptions, Canadabro.

By control, I mean control the range of discourse possible. It is not simply about truths and lies, but the way that the news is framed is perhaps the biggest issue in all of this (specifically what is excluded) . This is hegemony (control through consent). There are numerous works on this so I needn't belabor the point.

Perhaps this wasn't clear in my original post, it should be now.

 

[seedofvengeance]

I haven't read anything in this thread... ever. This is the first time I have opened it... but I know by the fact that he has posted that Death Aflame is wrong.

 

[Death Aflame]

I haven't read anything in this thread... ever. This is the first time I have opened it... but I know by the fact that he has posted that Death Aflame is wrong.

It's good to know that I have had such an effect on you.

 

[Dak]

lol at the hegemonic media of evil doom controlling the brains of the people. Because no one uses the internet to look up things or fact check. Nice generalizations/assumptions, Canadabro.

Yeah because so many people use the internet for more than major news websites and AIM/myspace/facebook.

On that two sides of the same coin, theres another word that rhymes with tool (fool) and that's what anyone is who thinks that it isn't the case. Of course heads/tails looks different but it's still the same coin goin in the same fucking places.

America has been getting progressively weaker since 1913 and coincidently also more liberal. And before you lol back with "but omg we became a superpower since 1913", the whole thing has been funded on debt, and we obviously can't pay it back, which means it was not only temporary as fuck but payback is inevitable and going to be much more unpleasant than our shortlived super/"hyper"power status has been pleasant.

Just because Obama isn't Bush doesn't mean the ultimate outcome changes, just the delivery.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

You're generalizing everyone as fucking retarded, which really isn't true at all. Once again, extremely pessimistic. Where's your data to show that people, especially younger people, aren't getting their news from alternative sources and actually critically thinking about things. I sure as hell know I do, but I expect you don't think I do.

 

[Dak]

You're generalizing everyone as fucking retarded, which really isn't true at all. Once again, extremely pessimistic. Where's your data to show that people, especially younger people, aren't getting their news from alternative sources and actually critically thinking about things. I sure as hell know I do, but I expect you don't think I do.

See, the awesome thing about alternative news sites (which I do read alot)is : They are only considered valid when presented if the audience agrees with the content.

Obviously the sites you and I read are different and neither of us would probably accept the info from the other.

And as far as this pessimism thing you keep harping on, BEING REALISTIC IS NOT PESSIMISM. You obviously prefer to ignore what every honest economist around the world is saying and has
been saying for a while about the financial state of affairs, not to mention the rediculous debt hole the US is buried in. But the majority of Americans like to ignore reality in favor of bright lights, loud music and pretty colors so that is no suprise. I get it: it is easier, it keeps you in a good mood to ignore unpleasant things you have no control over. But that doesn't make the problem go away.

Edit: I don't believe everyone is retarded, I think everyone is lazy and would rather have a good time than be bothered by the details of life.

Obama's administration is working on nearly a trillion dollar stimulus package on top of all the other loans and stimulus packages already payed out and ALL that money is BORROWED. Since the entire financial systems problems are based on the fact that theres too much debt and no one paying it (to simplify it), how is borrowing more money anything more than self-destructive?

 

[AchrisK]

...
We'll see.

this

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I didn't want to bring this up, but since you think God has a plan and faith is the best thing ever and you believe and love and peace will conquer all and the world is great, why do you constantly espouse opinions that don't agree with this outlook whatsoever? Are you a sad Christian who thinks the world is a horrible, awful place? You can leave it you know. And you'll get to heaven faster.

What do you want to do, what do you propose, to make everyone "wake up" and snap out of their coma of laziness? You don't have any ideas at all, you're sad and think the earth is shit and the entire state of everything is horrible. Goddamn, reading your posts makes my life feel like it's not worth living. Not everyone is as lazy and stupid as you think. Alternative news sites may not be the most helpful thing ever, but at least if you're on them, and have ideas formulated in your brain THAT GOD THE ALMIGHTY MADE FOR YOU, you can fact check shit. People do this. Not everyone. Probably not most people in America. But your generalizations about Americans hurt my brain and make me want to ignore anything you say.

edit: also I expect some more bullshit conspiracy theorist "police state" shit from you in the near future, wherein you'll develop all these COMPLETELY ORIGINAL ideas plagiarized directly from George Orwell's diaries and early journals, and you'll think you're so cool and nihilistic the entire time*. Right?

 

[Dak]

I didn't want to bring this up, but since you think God has a plan and faith is the best thing ever and you believe and love and peace will conquer all and the world is great, why do you constantly espouse opinions that don't agree with this outlook whatsoever? Are you a sad Christian who thinks the world is a horrible, awful place? You can leave it you know. And you'll get to heaven faster.

What do you want to do, what do you propose, to make everyone "wake up" and snap out of their coma of laziness? You don't have any ideas at all, you're sad and think the earth is shit and the entire state of everything is horrible. Goddamn, reading your posts makes my life feel like it's not worth living. Not everyone is as lazy and stupid as you think. Alternative news sites may not be the most helpful thing ever, but at least if you're on them, and have ideas formulated in your brain THAT GOD THE ALMIGHTY MADE FOR YOU, you can fact check shit. People do this. Not everyone. Probably not most people in America. But your generalizations about Americans hurt my brain and make me want to ignore anything you say.

edit: also I expect some more bullshit conspiracy theorist "police state" shit from you in the near future, wherein you'll develop all these COMPLETELY ORIGINAL ideas plagiarized directly from George Orwell's diaries and early journals, and you'll think you're so cool and nihilistic the entire time*. Right?

Actually my outlook completely falls in line with my beliefs. I don't believe in heaven like you refer to so why would I want to get to a place that doesn't exist?

My outlook on life is great personally because of my faith, and as far as the "you think" claims, I am pretty confident that this (listed above) is the state of things. I didn't just randomly make the shit up.
You are the one who brought up retail as an example oflearning the state of the average American .
Also, I can just pull up academic results and obesity statistics to point to how lazy/ "stupid" Americans are. Of course they are generalizations and aren't meant to include everyone. But I would say the majority.

The reason you are so mad is because you have nothing but this life to [look forward to], so any negative reality is going to meet with the first psychological stage of dealing with unpleasantries and that is denial.

Being "cool" or "nihilistic" has nothing to fucking do with it. Ignoring the police state with Orwell joke cop-outs is up to you. I posted plenty of links verified information to back me up, which you chose to ignore.

Edit: The only point in my adult life where my [hope] for the immediate future was for a potentially bright one was while the potential for Ron Paul becoming president existed. He was the only real change and hope available in the last few presidential elections and the American people didn't want it. So now we get to live with the consequences that have been building over the last 95 years.

 

[skeptik]

posting links = being right