Off Topic- Help needed with Digital Cameras for concerts

[FatesFan]

I know there are no digital cameras allowed at Prog Power, but I have been to a few shows that will allow cameras. Having said that, I am looking for some input as to what is a good mid range point and shoot digital camera. I have a Nikon and it is a piece. It is an older model that I got on Clearance. If I use the flash at a concert, it drowns out the stage light and it looks like a dark picture of a band playing in the dark. If I turn off the flash, I get all the pretty stage lights but because it is struggling for light, it leaves the shutter wide open (simulated shutter)and gives me a blurred shot.

I shoot with a Rebel 35mm and am thinking of going to a Rebel digital some day. But for now, I want a small, fit in pocket, camera for shows.

ANY IDEAS? What cameras have you all used with success?

 

[J-Dubya 777]

I've been real happy with my Canon Powershot S30. I'd like something a little faster, but I've gotten some decent pics from the shows I used it at.
Pro quality? Not even close! Better than my P&S olympus? You betcha!
The other thing is, they don't make them anymore, I think I paid about $125 for mine on E-bay. Only does 30 seconds of vid, but I'm not lugging around a $600-$700 dollar camera that I have to worry about protecting. If this one dies, I'll look for another. I think they are up to 7 or 8 megapixels now with these models, but for what I use it for (shows & E-bay) it works fine.

2 other things to mention, it doesn't have good macro ability, and it uses CF cards, which are getting harder to find....

Hope this helps!

 

[AMBR]

A friend of mine has the Canon Powershot S2 which he's taken tons of excellent concert photos. Especially helpful is the 12x optical zoom and the flip out, rotating display allowing you to hold the camera up over a crowd and still see what you're shooting. Here's another review from CNET.

While the S2 has now been replaced with the S3 the only real difference is the silver body is now black, the ISO range is up to 80-800, and it is 6 megapixels versus 5. There is also the far more expensive ($500) 8mp S5, but I warn you against falling into the "Mega Pixel Trap" Once you're up to about 4 mp's, unless you are blowing them up to cover a wall or something, more mp is not going to look any different. An 8x10 in 4 and 10 mp look the same.

A nice feature of the S2 and 3 Powershot cameras is the image stabilization that corrects "the shakes" . Especially helpful when zooming. Both cameras use SD cards and AA batteries, though I highly recommend you get a pair of NiMH rechargeable batteries (2500 mAh, ideally) or you'll be chaning them often.

You can still buy the S2 new for about $225-230, or spend the extra and get the S3 for just under $300.

 

[esa]

Although you can shoot with flash if you're close enough and the venue permits it, most of the great concert shots are shot with available light. Some shows are brightly lit, but most require help from fast lenses and fast (high-ISO) sensors or film in order to maintain adequately fast shutter speeds. Currently, digital SLRs have a huge advantage in these areas over point-and-shoot and prosumer cameras.

Fuji makes point-and-shoot cameras with remarkable high-ISO capability compared to most: although many P&S cameras do ISO 800 and above nowadays, the noise levels and color artifacts can be brutal. Another nice feature is "auto-ISO" where the camera boosts ISO only when necessary. The Fuji F20 is a bargain at under $150 and has perfectly usable ISO 800, plus auto-ISO to 1600. One downside: Fuji uses a non-mainstream memory card format. Search the DP Review Fuji forum for example shots.

Anti-shake is a nice feature to have, but it only compensates for your movement: you still need fast shutter speeds to stop subject motion.

 

[esa]

Especially helpful is the 12x optical zoom

Beware: the zoom lens on every P&S and prosumer camera is variable f-stop, meaning that the the lens is faster at wide angle than telephoto. This is a double jeopardy because long focal lengths require correspondingly faster shutter speeds (anti-shake aka image stabilization actually helps here!) but you're paying an additional one f-stop penalty (forcing the camera to lengthen the shutter speed) every time you zoom in.

 

[St Enigma]

I'd be the guy with Canon IS S2 who AMBR is referring to.

I use it mostly at gigs because SRLs are considered here as professional equipment and thus not allowed at gigs without a photopass. Bands and record labels do not care about video features in compacts and cellphones because there is no significant market for poor bootleg videos. I never use the video feature at gigs, makes no sense even S2 has pretty decent CD-quality stereo sound built in.

Aperture covers a decent f:2.7 -3.5 to F:8, and especally the 12x zoom combined with an image stabilizer that works makes a difference. IS allows to shoot using longer zoom in darker circumstances - worth 2 steps compensation - but like esa said it won't compensate any motion of the target.
Also the ISO range in S2 is 50-400 and the 400 is hardly bearble at all. Nowdays ISO range is easily advertised up to 1600 or even 3200 but in most cameras the two or three highest values are mostly useless due to heavy granulation in the resulting image.
Images can be shot using full automatic mode, several programs, full manually or your own preset values. The lens is decent for a multi purpose compact, maybe a little soft drawing, but good enough for web photos and 8 by 10 prints.
Besides the price-tag on the wide range of pro-like features, the best thing is it's rather small sized comapared to SLRs. Fits well in a little pocket-bag on my belt without the need to lug a case on my shoulder. AA rechareables (2700 mA) give a good 600 shots per one set and usual SD- and MMC+ cards will do (S3 and S5 can use HDSCs, too) Oh, S5 has got hot shoe for external flash which is lacking from the older models, but wasn't enough to convince me to go for it. The two years old S2 will do fine for another year or three, I reckon.

If you want to see some shots taken with the debut model Canon S1 and comapare them to another 3 sets taken with the S2 here you go:
Indoor venues,
Tarot at Club Livinstone 2005 (S1) shot standing on a couch at 15-20 ft, stage lights on the floor facing up, inbuilt flash fired in some images.
Tarot at The House of Rock 2006 (S2) shot at the rail at 5-15 ft, stage lightshow on, inbuilt flash fired in some images.

Oudoor festivals,
Tarot at Myötäruuli Rock Festival 2006 (S2) shot at 60-70 ft over the crowd at late afternoon with sun straight opposite, behind the stage
Tarot at Tuska Festival 2006 (S2) shot at 50-60 ft over the crowd in bright sunshine coming behind me

Just remember that all those files were first p-shopped down into 600 x 800px at high web quality jpg, and during uploading in photphuket their filters tend to mess the files into a pile of s*it. The originals are quite decent for the purpose.

 

[hyperdesire]

steady hand, higher ISO like 400, no flash, wait till subject is not moving around, wait till available light is lit enough, longer shutter speed, plus you loose image quality with zoom so try to get up close.

 

[skyrefuge]

Don't bother. If you aren't going to get a big ol' SLR, it's not worth your time or money. Instead of distracting yourself with a camera, simply pay attention to the concert instead. That way you might even be able to use that old-fashioned tool called "your memory" to reminisce on your experience. If your memory is so poor as to prevent that, you can almost always go online to find some crappy photos that were taken by one of the many other people in attendance who weren't as wise as you.

If you insist, however, the Fujis mentioned in esa's post are probably your best bet, although you still might be frustrated a lot of the time. In general, esa's post was 100% truth.

And whatever you do, for the love of metal, DON'T USE A FLASH!!!!

Neil

 

[DAVETHEMETALGUY]

QOTW...
"For the love of metal...dont use a flash"

that's priceless

 

[The Fiddler]

Great posts, Esa and Neil.

 

[FatesFan]

Thanks for all the info from everyone.