Off topic - Religion/personal beliefs

Just because many elements of the bible have basis in fact doesn't mean every word should be interpreted as iron clad truth. There's ample evidence that the biblical flood did occur, the city of Jericho did fall, and that Jesus did indeed walk the earth but there's also ample archaeological evidence suggesting the Trojan War was indeed fought. Should we then interpret the Iliad as gospel truth and start offering sacrifices to the Olympian gods? We know more about the life of Mohammed than we do about the life of Christ, should we then hurry to the mosques?

Substantiating elements of the bible does not effectively establish the veracity of its message. Whether or not Noah built an Ark is irrelevant.
 
Just commenting:

BornOfFire said:
There's ample evidence that the biblical flood did occur,
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Most early civilizations rose on major rivers, which have the occasional catastrophic floods - and to the local population, it may have *seemed* worldwide, but the geographical strata says otherwise.

and that Jesus did indeed walk the earth
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Outside of the bible, there's none of that either. Messiah wannabes were a dime a dozen in those days; if there was a particular [insert your favorite local name for Jesus] son of Joseph the carpenter at that time period, he was executed along with all the others that were regarded as perennial troublemakers, and the Romans took no special note of him.

There is Josephus, but many scholars believe that references to Jesus were added in years later by followers who were indignant that their particular holy man received no mention in the records. (much like the recent issue with the ossuary - the stone box is legit, but the inscription, "James, brother of Jesus," was added later.)

And even assuming there *was* such a man, there's no reason to believe he was anything more than a great teacher who was deified by his followers after his death.

(But otherwise, your point is taken.)

My beef with the Bible is that for a book that claims to be the Word of God, there's an awful lot in it that's just plain wrong; you'd think that when God inspired its writers, he'd at least have encouraged them to get pi right. And I certainly don't hold with its message; the happy holy stuff of the New Testament doesn't erase the horrors committed by God in the Old.
 
BornOfFire said:
Whether or not Noah built an Ark is irrelevant
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I agree it is irrelevant, but it is relevant that Noah actually used it. anyways, I agree it is pointless to try to convince someone of converting by using the bible. the bible is for believers, not for would-be-believers.
 
ElPredicador said:
I agree it is pointless to try to convince someone of converting by using the bible. the bible is for believers, not for would-be-believers.
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That's wrong. The Bible is the instruction, more than it's suppossed to be a history lesson. And don't forget, the whole meaning of the Bible isn't destruction, eternal damnation or a perfect account of the beggining of everything, it's about love. Yeah, I know what you're thinking. "Geez, that sounds prety cheesy." But if you don't know it, and you've read the whole thing, then you missed it.

But I'll say again, it's a choice up to the individual to accept it.
 
Well i saw on the news there is some kind of proof that "A" Jesus did exist because of an inscription on a tomb of one of his brothers..or something, i didnt pay full attention to the report, but whether it was THAT jesus or another prominent jesus of the same time, that is of course in dispute..what does this little tidbit of information prove? absolutely nothing..lol..just thought i'd throw it in for good measure.

but i do have a question for non-religious people, what is the explanation of the 'shroud of touron (or however it is spelled)'. because i dont know.
 
Ok I've been thinkin bout this a lot lately and I've decided that I do believe in a god, just not the christian god, or any other organized religion for that matter. I still think that much of the Bible is just stories, and that the church just wants your money. I also still think that a good portion of christians are very arrogant and practice their religion just because they are told to do so.
 
It's stupid. It's a death shroud found that had what looked like a face resembling what most people think of as what Jesus looked like, but it's dumb because nobody really knows what He looked like. You know, like the image on the plates that some people have, or a painting of the last supper.
 
SilentRealm said:
Well i saw on the news there is some kind of proof that "A" Jesus did exist because of an inscription on a tomb of one of his brothers..or something,
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That was the ossuary I mentioned. The box is indeed from that general time period, but the inscription was added much later - the edges are far too crisp given how old the box is, and given the condition of the rest of the box itself. The man who owns the box conveniently "can't remember" the dealer he got it from in the 70s. You'd think that if you buy an ossuary with that particular inscription, you'd make note of who it came from. I think he got screwed, personally - there are all sorts of cons out there who love to take advantage of people whose faith transcends both doubt and common sense.

As for the shroud of Turin, it's generally accepted that it was woven around the 14th century - at least accepted by those who don't make a habit out of trying to make the evidence fit the conclusion, instead of the other way around.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof."
 
My religion is HEAVY METAL...

Actually, I am Jewish. I became Bar-Mitzvah and was confirmed, and all of that. I don't keep kosher, I am reform, so that I may still have my faith and not have it dictate aspects of my life.

However, I believe music and religion are SEPARATE. :p Same with love, and patriotism. These three things are the most trite, redundant and overused lyrical themes. If I write poetry or songs, they don't even touch near those.

However, I regard music so deeply that it is to me something beyond religion...

I also believe in humanity more than I do many other things. In Judaism, we believe that a messiah comes through humans working together to create it, by doing Mitzvah (good deeds)

I also believe that tastes in music and religion (or lack thereof) are deeply personal, and people should not be flamed for their choices here. It seems this thread is doing a good job.
 
RE: ShredManWalking........

:cool: Question to everyone enjoying this "unique" thread......
Can you think of anywhere else that thoughts and observations of this nature could be shared in such a decent and mature manner???
When the thread was started I thought, man this could be a disaster. But It's not.

Hey, I'm impressed!
 
Pharoah said:
RE: ShredManWalking........

:cool: Question to everyone enjoying this "unique" thread......
Can you think of anywhere else that thoughts and observations of this nature could be shared in such a decent and mature manner???
When the thread was started I thought, man this could be a disaster. But It's not.
Click to expand...

Yeah, someone should do something about that. I guess I'll get it started.

Fuck all of you. Everyone is wrong except for me.
 
Hey if your enjoying this thread you've got me to thank, well I'm my own harshest critic but I too think it's genius.

I'd like to thank the academy, my mum and dad, all my freinds for sticking by me through the tough times, I love you all, mmmmwahhhh
 
Well I was raised Catholic but am not currently a practitioner of it as of now. This is how I see things:
I think each and every person's own will and thought is a spectacular and miraculous thing. Our moods, likes, dislikes, attitudes, dreams......the way we feel inside when we see a particular person that is "special" to us. Just being able to feel these things that do not come into contact with us physically shows that we are more than just an anatomy of organs that make us "live". I hate it when scientists try to explain how we have come to be by saying crap like stars exploding and big bang, and how small cells slowly evolved with atoms and all that whatnot (I can't remember exactly how it goes but you guys know what I mean). But what created the cells, or atoms, or space itself? Something magical or spiritual HAD to of created these things and even science itslelf. I am not exactly a christian and don't follow any particular religion, I just believe there has to be SOMETHING that started everything. I took a course in school called Comparative Religion where you study just about every religion of the world. It is amazing how some of the religions got started. For example, Hinduism, which is the religion in which the highly popular religion of the eastern hemishphere Buddhism comes from, got started from some guy who lived in a castle his WHOLE life and then went outside to go on a "mental journey" to find the meaning of life. He came back and claimed to see visions of Gods and they gave him all the rules and such of the religion. That is basically how it started. Strange huh? Those people must have really trusted that one guy! A lot of christians (not all) seem to act like they are so much better than those who aren't christians and it kinda makes me angry. They seem to be thinking "oh well he/she is going to hell, maybe I can save his/her soul by being annoying and preaching about Jesus to them". Well it is true that religion is just used for power and only creates wars. Lol....well that is why "Church of the Machine" is one of my fave SX songs! Well I just think that when they say God created man in "his" image it is true because like I said earlier about how we think and feel things that are intangible. But I don't see how they say God expects us to devotly believe in him when our minds are the same as his, he should understand that we would question and wonder about our true existence when God doesn't give us any signs that he is there, why is it only in biblical times that God supposedly performs miraculous feats and gives powers to prophets such as Moses and Jesus. God made a flood in the world just because some people stopped believing in him a little but all the killing and bloodshed going on in the Middle East these days over religion and he sits silently. What about the holocaust of WWII? Where was God then.....that kind of stuff really makes me angry. Well I will shut up now.
 
It's not like He expects us to believe in Him, it's just like it's your benefit to believe in Him...
the way I see it is like He created us, and then let us there, maybe doing some stuff here and there, but not controling the history of the world. God doesn't need to be anywhere when you expect Him to be there...
 
I don't "expect" anything from him. I am just making the point about the bible. I just find it weird God would give Moses the power to part the Red Sea to save people from Egypt or give Jesus the power to heal and make blind people see. And create a flood over some people not worshipping him. He created miraculous disasters in Egypt to show the pharoah that he did exist and wanted him to release the Israelites. It is just odd that he did those things then and never has since. Just kinda strange all that stuff did happen to make it into the bible in time for everyone in the future to read about. If someone decided to write a bible that covered the present time it would be pretty boring, no God showing his wrath to the Palestinians and Israelis for killing mass quantities of each others' people. Maybe God would know the answer to which side has the rights to the "Holy Land", if anyone would know it would be God, no? He could save a lot of hatred and bloodshed if he would just be like "Oh well so and so should be the rightful heir to the lands". Its not that I expect it or think God should do these things, its just that why would he do those things then and not now? It just show how fake the bible is. Writing this has made me think even more about it and I now think I totally disbelieve in the bible, or at least the Old Testament, which are the stories of all the miraculous things God did. I somewhat believe the New Testament because it is about Jesus and is a newer writing than the Old which I can't see how was written by a respected person that long ago. I think it is true Jesus existed but question if he was the son of God. I know from my religion class that he could easily of just been a guy who was a great leader that people loved and respected his ideas and visions.
 
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