Off topic - Religion/personal beliefs

[Alexander TG]

This thread is slowly turning into preachers corner, can't we just exchange free ideas without shoving our beliefs down other peoples throats?

Here is one of my favourites for the preaching Christians :

IRON MAIDEN

Holy Smoke

Steve Harris, Bruce Dickinson

Believe in me - send us money
Died on the cross and that ain't funny
But my so called friends are making me a joke
They missed out what i said like I never spoke
They choose what they wanna hear - they don't tell a lie
They just leave out the truth as they're watching you die
They're saving your souls by taking your money
Flies round shit, bees around honey

Chorus

Holy Smoke, Holy Smoke, plenty bad preachers for
The devil to stoke
Feed 'em in feet first this is no joke
This is thirsty work making Holy Smoke yeah
Making holy smoke

Jimmy Reptile and all his friends
Say they gonna be with you at the end
Burning records burning books
Holy soldiers Nazi looks
Crocodile smiles just wait a while
Till the TV Queen gets her make-up clean
I've lived in filth I've lived in sin
And I still smell cleaner than the shit you're in

Repeat chorus

Holy Smoke
Smells good

They ain't religious but they ain't no fools
When Noah built his Cadillac it was cool
Two by two they're still going down
And the satellite circus just left town
I think they're strange and when they're dead
They can have a Lincoln for their bed
Friend of the President trick of the tail
Now they ain't got a prayer 100 years in jail

Repeat chorus
Holy Smoke
Hah

 

[Pharaoh]

Just feel like sharing this with you all....this is typical of the closed-minded area where I live. I introduced Symphony X to an acquaintance who liked it till she read the lyrics (V). I said "Awesome band, aren't they?" She tore into me and said "It had to leave my house, because this is devil worship music. "Huh??" I was blatantly told not to "dabble" in satanic music. :Spin: Word got around that my wife and I take our kids to Prog Metal concerts (they love this music!) and some people started avoiding me like it was a contagious disease.
I got little Bible passage books placed where I would find them. It's crazy. I don't have to prove myself to anyone, so I let this all slide.

I'm glad to be a part of this Forum.

 

[Dream Symphony]

This thread is slowly turning into preachers corner, can't we just exchange free ideas without shoving our beliefs down other peoples throats

I'm not trying to shove my beliefs down anyone's throat. It just sometimes happens that way lol. I was actually trying not to. But then again, no one on this board has to open the thread and read it if they don't want to be preached to. I like doing this stuff partly because it helps me get more confidence in what I say and believe. Also this is a free board, I can post what I want can't I? At least I'm not flaming anyone like you and some others have already started doing.

 

[Dream Symphony]

Just feel like sharing this with you all....this is typical of the closed-minded area where I live. I introduced Symphony X to an acquaintance who liked it till she read the lyrics (V). I said "Awesome band, aren't they?" She tore into me and said "It had to leave my house, because this is devil worship music. "Huh??" I was blatantly told not to "dabble" in satanic music. :Spin: Word got around that my wife and I take our kids to Prog Metal concerts (they love this music!) and some people started avoiding me like it was a contagious disease.
I got little Bible passage books placed where I would find them. It's crazy. I don't have to prove myself to anyone, so I let this all slide.

I'm glad to be a part of this Forum.

Thats rediculous. The lyrics are not satanic. Most of it is just Mythology and does not express the beliefs of the band at all. They are just writing good music.

 

[Alexander TG]

I'm not flaming anyone I just don't like it when people play defender of the faith and take the high mighty stance of 'I'm right your wrong'. You may not say this literally but in your wording and phrases I can tell you think it, black magic mwahahahaha

How do you know the mythology upon which there entire music works is based upon is not based upon their beliefs, did Micheal drop by your house and tell you?

 

[jaimek]

but just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean I won't.

Jesus promised to return during the lifetime of his disciples. Unless one of them happens to still be alive after two thousand years, chances are pretty good that it isn't going to happen.

 

[Dream Symphony]

I'm not flaming anyone I just don't like it when people play defender of the faith and take the high mighty stance of 'I'm right your wrong'. You may not say this literally but in your wording and phrases I can tell you think it, black magic mwahahahaha

How do you know the mythology upon which there entire music works is based upon is not based upon their beliefs, did Micheal drop by your house and tell you?

Well your wording leads me to think you are flaming. Sorry if I'm wrong.

"Will people who preach that the end of the world is nigh please kill themselves now and make that sentiment true for themselves."

And that Iron maiden thing doesn't help either.


Also why are you making a big deal about what I said about the band and mythology? I just figured that what they write about doesn't really express their religious beliefs. All they are doing is telling a story. They never said that they believe all of it is true. Did you hear them say that they did?

 

[Dream Symphony]

Jesus promised to return during the lifetime of his disciples. Unless one of them happens to still be alive after two thousand years, chances are pretty good that it isn't going to happen.

No he didn't. He promised his disiples that he would one day return. He never said in the lifetime of the disiples. Read this.

2 Peter 3:3 First, I want to remind you that in the last days there will be scoffers who will laugh at the truth and do every evil thing they desire. 4 This will be their argument: “Jesus promised to come back, did he? Then where is he? Why, as far back as anyone can remember, everything has remained exactly the same since the world was first created.”
8 But you must not forget, dear friends, that a day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day. 9 The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise to return, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to perish, so he is giving more time for everyone to repent.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and everything in them will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be exposed to judgment.

New Living Translation

 

[scanner313]

As you can see, God created all living creatures first. Then man. So obviously Dinosaurs were created along with the rest of the creatures. And lived at the same time as man, and were wiped out at the time of the great flood. I don't believe that the carbon dating has proven anything.

Check out this website: http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2.asp
Everything is explained very well.

No offense, but you are making the exact same argument that the radio show host I heard made. You just dismiss Carbon Dating as ineffective, or inaccurate. This is a system that is extremely accurate and has proven that dinosaur fossils are millions, yes MILLIONS of years old. Let alone the other geological factors that contribute to this dating. The oldest human remains have been dated to about 30,000 years (which, if I am correct, is the estimate for how long life, and the Earth itself, has existed on Earth by most religious proponents). There is hard scientific evidence to back up the findings of carbon dating. It's been tested over and over and it is defintely accurate. But since it discredits the belief that humans were part of the first groupings of life on this planet you dismiss it as unreliable, inaccurate, whatever.

This is what drives me crazy about devout Christians (particularly) is that they have no proof to support their position, yet they will always just ignore the proof of science. I'm an engineer with a technical background in physics, etc. If you can offer me some credible evidence of the existence of god I would listen. I'm not just going to dismiss it as unreliable, but that's exactly what you are doing regarding carbon dating. And it's what's done constantly by the church because they can't refute the evidence science has put forth. So they arrogantly dismiss it as nonsense when their entire belief system is pure and utter nonsense.

I believed in Santa Claus when I was kid until my parents told me he wasn't real. If they had told me that god didn't exist either I would have believed them whole heartedly because, not for nothing, I was a whole lot bigger fan of Santa than I was of god. At least with Santa there was some physical evidence that he existed (the gifts under the tree at Christmas). The fact that that was false evidence didn't matter at the time because I was a kid and didn't understand. Now that I'm an adult I can understand that Santa Claus is not real for reasons of common sense. And for me, the same goes for god. Obviously for you, that's not the case. And you know what, that's fine. Believe what you want if it makes you comfortable, but don't talk about the coming of Jesus as fact because you can't support it. Just the same as I can't support that he's not coming. But when we both reach old age and we die of means other than the apocolypse, then maybe you'll rethink your position. Maybe I will, who knows.

 

[Dream Symphony]

No offense, but you are making the exact same argument that the radio show host I heard made. You just dismiss Carbon Dating as ineffective, or inaccurate. This is a system that is extremely accurate and has proven that dinosaur fossils are millions, yes MILLIONS of years old. Let alone the other geological factors that contribute to this dating. The oldest human remains have been dated to about 30,000 years (which, if I am correct, is the estimate for how long life, and the Earth itself, has existed on Earth by most religious proponents). There is hard scientific evidence to back up the findings of carbon dating. It's been tested over and over and it is defintely accurate. But since it discredits the belief that humans were part of the first groupings of life on this planet you dismiss it as unreliable, inaccurate, whatever.

I have to admit that I don't know anything about Carbon dating. As of right now I don't see how it is possible for anyone to actually be able to prove how old something is. Could you please explain how the Carbon dating method works and how it tells how old stuff is?
One thing that is true is that none of us were around at the time so none of us can really prove anything. All we did was find their bones. So all we really know is that they existed. We don't know when they existed.

Did you read everything on that website? Cause it all makes sense to me, coming from the Bibles point of view.

 

[Dream Symphony]

This is what drives me crazy about devout Christians (particularly) is that they have no proof to support their position, yet they will always just ignore the proof of science. I'm an engineer with a technical background in physics, etc. If you can offer me some credible evidence of the existence of god I would listen. I'm not just going to dismiss it as unreliable, but that's exactly what you are doing regarding carbon dating. And it's what's done constantly by the church because they can't refute the evidence science has put forth. So they arrogantly dismiss it as nonsense when their entire belief system is pure and utter nonsense.

Of course no evidence that I can give you will convince that God exists. But there is proof that the Bible is true. There is scientific proof that the world was once completely flooded. And I have seen documentarys of people who actually have seen a historic, giant boat on Mt. Ararat. The exact Mt. that the Bible tells the Ark landed on. I don't know if you have heard the story of Jerico. But the Bible says that the God's People shouted out, and the walls fell down. Well the city of Jerico was found. And when the fallen structure was examined, they found that the walls had fallen outward. Suggesting that they had just fallen down. Obviously this is only a few examples, but there are many more things in the Bible that has proof of being true.

 

[Alexander TG]

Sorry if I offended you but this thread needs to be lightened up because certain people wouldn't get off their religious soapbox. Besides I'm off work at the moment sick so I've got nothing better to do than hang here (post count has doubled in past 4 days!!)

The whole mythology theme running throughout the works of Symphony leads me to believe they take a lot from the ideologies of subjects such as Atlantis. I think they have more heart and soul than to just scan over a load of mythology and re-hash it into songs that mean absolutely nothing. Religion is too harsher word to use but I think their themes have much meaning to the guys, I also take a lot from SX lyrics, the divine power, good vs. evil and the ways of ancient civilisations which are all based upon transcripts much older than the all-mighty bible.

 

[Dream Symphony]

Sorry if I offended you, but this thread needs to be lightened up because certain people wouldn't get off their soapbox. Besides I'm off work at the moment sick so I've got nothing better to do than hang here.

The whole mythology theme running throughout the works of Symphony leads me to believe they take a lot from the ideologies of subjects such as Atlantis. I think they have more heart and soul than to just scan over a load of mythology and re-hash it into songs that mean absolutely nothing. Religion is to harsher word to use but I think their themes have much meaning to the guys, I also take a lot from SX lyrics, the divine power, good vs. evil and ancient civilisations which is all based upon transcripts much older than the all-mighty bible.

Thats alright man. I apollogize if all my posts sound like sermons lol. My dad is a pastor, so I think that is alot of where it comes from. It is just part of me I guess. And I just have very strong beliefs as you can see.


I realize that the mytholody probably mean a lot to the Band. I was really just trying to say that it doesn't really express their religious beliefs. Anyways it doesn't really matter. Neither of us really know anything about the band personally.
How do you know that the Mythology transcrips are older that the Bible? Not being sarcastic or anything, I'm just interested. When were they written? I'll have to find out when the scrolls that contained the storys of the Bible were written.

Ok, I have to go for now. I'm going to see T3! Can't wait.

 

[scanner313]

I have to admit that I don't know anything about Carbon dating. As of right now I don't see how it is possible for anyone to actually be able to prove how old something is. Could you please explain how the Carbon dating method works and how it tells how old stuff is?
One thing that is true is that none of us were around at the time so none of us can really prove anything. All we did was find their bones. So all we really know is that they existed. We don't know when they existed.

Did you read everything on that website? Cause it all makes sense to me, coming from the Bibles point of view.

I don't know the exact workings of carbon dating, and without researching it a bit I may not get all the details correct, but here's a little bit of what I remember (although I would recommend you check itout yourself).
All animal life on this planet is carbon based. When something dies it begins to decay. Carbon has a very specific rate of decay (I think it's the half life, or something) that can be traced if you have some physical matter from that being. Bones are a perfect example of this matter and can be used to determine the date the animal died through carbon dating. I believe it's extremely accurate when the animal has been dead only a short time (a couple hundred years or so) and definitely begins to vary a bit more as the specimen gets older, but even then it's accurate to within a known tolerance as defined by statistics.

Anyway, to identify a specimen as millions of years old is very accurate to probably within a few thousand years. the earliest human remains have been dated to, I believe, about 30,000 years ago and that date is probably accurate to within 100 to 200 years.

Anyway, I would recommend you research carbon dating and make up your own mind as to whether it is valid, but all I ask is that you don't dismiss it because of your other belief in god.

We all have the ability to reason and can be free thinkers when we're not under the influence of other factors (like parents, teachers, pastors, political figures, etc.). All I'm saying is that you should always question everything. I know this is contradictory to what the church promotes. They say to have "faith" in god's existence. Well, the word faith itself means to believe without proof. The leaders of the chuch know that followers don't have physical evidence of god's existence so they ask them to have faith. That's fine, but most often I've noticed that people who have faith let it blind them to other possibilities that may be more evident than their belief. I think the worst thing you can do is limit yourself to one way of thinking because you didn't give another side a chance. And I'm sure it would be xtremely disheartening and difficult for you personally to question the existence of god and the validity of religion being that your father is a pastor and obviously believes very strongly in both of those things. My parents were moderately religious people and my mom still nags me about not going to church, etc. I've never expressed my disbelief to her because I know it would upset her tremendously, but it doesn't change the fact that I've opened my mind to reason and came out on the other end of what I was taught as a child. And believe me, it wasn't easy to finally make that decision. It's much more comfortable to believe that no matter what we do we are destined for forgiveness and an eternity in god's kindom, but for me I just can't subscribe to that belief.

If you can, that's great! And honestly, I hope you are right and I'm wrong, but for now I must go with my decision as I've never gotten any proof to believe otherwise.

 

[The Yngster]

I have to admit that I don't know anything about Carbon dating. As of right now I don't see how it is possible for anyone to actually be able to prove how old something is. Could you please explain how the Carbon dating method works and how it tells how old stuff is?
One thing that is true is that none of us were around at the time so none of us can really prove anything. All we did was find their bones. So all we really know is that they existed. We don't know when they existed.

Did you read everything on that website? Cause it all makes sense to me, coming from the Bibles point of view.

Carbon dating deals with the half-life of Carbon-14. Every certain amount of years (carbon's half life is extremely long) exactly half of the amount of carbon in an object decays. And since there is carbon in bones, you can judge how old they are by the amount of carbon remaining in the bone. Thats my very brief, possibly slightly innaccurate description of carbon dating.

 

[Pharaoh]

Regarding my last post about "V", I forgot to mention that it was strictly the other person's perception of the music, not mine or my family's. It's Mythology. I don't hear anything "satanic" in any of their CDs. I just mentioned it because it blew me away how someone else perceived it because of the nature of the music and the "deep" philosophical approach to their writing. It seemed to relate somewhat to this thread.

 

[Lapazeus]

I believe in Biblical Creationism.

There are two theories. First one says that humans evolved from monkeys. Another says that Eve was faithful to Adam...

If "god" made Adam and Eve, all the people in the world are a result from incest.


ps. Don't take this post too seriously, this is just my sick sense of humor.

 

[Dream Symphony]

I'll look into Carbon Dating. But from your guys brief explanation, I don't see how that could possibly be accurate. I won't dismis the info. But I feel that there is a lot more evidence to God's existence and the Bible being true to just throw out my beliefs over a Carbon dating thoery.
Anyways, I think everyone has pretty much had it with my "preaching" lol, so I'm gonna stop now.

Take it easy guys. It was fun debating .

 

[Yngvai X]

I'll look into Carbon Dating. But from your guys brief explanation, I don't see how that could possibly be accurate. I won't dismis the info. But I feel that there is a lot more evidence to God's existence and the Bible being true to just throw out my beliefs over a Carbon dating thoery.
Anyways, I think everyone has pretty much had it with my "preaching" lol, so I'm gonna stop now.

Take it easy guys. It was fun debating .

I'll tell you one thing dude, you're MUCH more open minded than most all of the very devoted christians Ive met. I mean, obviously you dont have a problem with metal and stuff like that, and I know really devoted christians (like the one pharoah was dealing with) think anything with distortion is the devil's work, and that you can appriciate a band like Symphony X that use mythological stuff in their lyrics. For that, you get a lot of respect from me \m/.

 

[The Yngster]

Dude, you don't understand. Carbon Dating is not a theory, it is a proven fact. Its been tested countless times, and been accurate every time. If you really have doubts go ask a real scientist.