Off topic - Religion/personal beliefs

[Yngvai X]

I found this on Jens Johansson's webpage, its kinda interesting in a humorous way. Jens has a lot of interesting thoughts on religion and philosophy.

http://www.panix.com/~jens/philosophy.par

Belivers be warned before you visit his page tho, he's an agnostic/athiest.


"The temperature of Heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is Isaiah 30:26, "Moreover, the light of the Moon shall be as the light of the Sun and the light of the Sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days." Thus Heaven receives from the Moon as much radiation as we do from the Sun, and in addition 7*7 (49) times as much as the Earth does from the Sun, or 50 times in all. The light we receive from the Moon is one 1/10,000 of the light we receive from the Sun, so we can ignore that ... The radiation falling on Heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation, i.e., Heaven loses 50 times as much heat as the Earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann law for radiation, (H/E)^4 = 50, where E is the absolute temperature of the earth (-300K), gives H as 798K (525C). The exact temperature of Hell cannot be computed ... However Revelations 21:8 says "But the fearful, and unbelieving ... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, 444.6C. We have, then, that Heaven, at 525C is hotter than Hell at 445C.

— From "Applied Optics" vol. 11, A14, 1972"

 

[Medusa's eyes]

I don't read the Bible and I never will. I had to read some things for school but I don't mind. I'm not that christian, I listen to all the things I want and all the things I want to do. But I really do believe in God

 

[The Yngster]

What stuff has been proven that "goes against what the church says"? I'm not aware of anything at this time.
Also, I believe that God is not going to give humans the chance to try to figured out what happened. Things are getting so bad in the world right now, that the judgement of God is not far away. Jesus will be coming back soon. Then the 7 year tribulation described in the Bible will begin. Thats how I feel. We won't be here too much longer.

Scanner gave a good example. Then theres the thing where the church told everyone that the earth was the center of our solar system...

 

[The Metal Chick]

The only thing that bugs me about religion is when people try to shove it down other's throats in order to "save" them. I like that everyone here is being open minded to other's ideas about religion.

One of my friends that I have been friends with since I was like 7, is very religious. She goes to church twice a week, goes to a private Christian college, etc. Anyway, even though I listen to heavy metal, and am so not religious at all, we are still very close friends. Having an open mind is very important to me, and I'm very happy that she can appreciate me for who I am, and likewise I appreciate her for who she is.

And for all of those religious people who have posted here, kudos to you for staying cool

 

[SilentRealm]

ok i will spill..
i am a raised catholic. but when i reached adulthood i started the questioning stage which i am still in now. its not that i necessarily 'not' believe in a higher force, its that.. i honestly just don't know. there's still ALOT that science can't explain, and like Polyeidus was saying before about how matter had to have some grand design (wow sounds like a V song lol), that makes sense.
I've had enough strange dream experiences to think that perhaps another parallel mind state may exist..but even then, i don't really know what causes the random occurrences.

Also the idea that humans are the be-all and end-all of the universe is extremely arrogant to me, whether its as a result of some kind of god, or whether its a result of the evolutionary process.. i think there is just still so much out there that we are yet to experience, or maybe never even will.

 

[BornOfFire]

I agree 100%, I think the reason people credit God for creating existence is because science has yet to provide an answer. Slowly humans are learning more about how the universe works, and most of the stuff that has been proven goes against what the church says. To me its only a matter of time (probably not in my lifetime) before humans develop the technology to truely find out what happened.

I think you put too much faith in science. The origin of creation is about as unfathomable as the notion of infinity. As long as humans exist, there will be a place for religion. It serves an important purpose whether atheists like myself like it or not. But what I'm I saying, atheism itself is a leap of faith(as is any belief system with the possible exception of nihilism) and is therefore "religious" in nature.

 

[Alexander TG]

Doesn't anybody else think the Christian ideal of one single life on the planet is extremely unfair and completely illogical?

Take these two very probable cases for example

A child is born with a terminal disease and requires round the clock hospital care, without harsh pain killing injections the child lives in constant pain and knows little of the joys of the world. The parents watch on in horror and despair and watch their child deteriorate and eventually die at the ripe old age of 10.

A child is born into a wealthy family and lives a happy childhood, all material desires are fulfilled and the child has a very good education which is then utilised in adulthood into a high-flying well paid job. This person marries and has a big family, retires at age 60 and spends the rest of there years in leisure before dying peacefully at 91.

Now if this is a one shot deal isn't it a complete fuckin injustice?
If there is a so called 'higher power' I think it would have a little more logic and compassion so that everybody gets a fair chance, this ideal is symmetrical to reincarnation which is what I personally believe.

 

[Polyeidus]

I have proof. But it's my proof. It's mine. No one else can have it. They have to find their own. Sorry folks! That's just how it is.

And by the way Harp, the two lights verse is no good for discrediting the Bible. From what I understand, the scriptures of the canon were written about four thousand years ago, way before any science classes or the Renaissance. How else would one explain the light that cometh from the great circle in the sky?

I agree the whole creationism thing may be blown WAY out of control, probably by over zealous, umm, Christianfolk. To argue the existance of God is one thing, but to argue that He created the Universe in six days, however possible it is for Him, is certainly rediculous by any standard. One cannot prove to another He exists, but one tries to compel another to believe the world we live on, and the galaxy we reside in was created in six days is quite absurd. A great waste of resources indeed.

 

[Yngvai X]

Doesn't anybody else think the Christian ideal of one single life on the planet is extremely unfair and completely illogical?

Take these two very probable cases for example

A child is born with a terminal disease and requires round the clock hospital care, without harsh pain killing injections the child lives in constant pain and knows little of the joys of the world. The parents watch on in horror and despair and watch their child deteriorate and eventually die at the ripe old age of 10.

A child is born into a wealthy family and lives a happy childhood, all material desires are fulfilled and the child has a very good education which is then utilised in adulthood into a high-flying well paid job. This person marries and has a big family, retires at age 60 and spends the rest of there years in leisure before dying peacefully at 91.

Now if this is a one shot deal isn't it a complete fuckin injustice?
If there is a so called 'higher power' I think it would have a little more logic and compassion so that everybody gets a fair chance, this ideal is symmetrical to reincarnation which is what I personally believe.

Life sucks. Shit happens. Im sure the happy little squirrels that get run over in the road don't appriciate that either. Neither did the spider that I squished cause it was tresspassing in my room. I know those are animals/insects and you're talking about human beings but its the same thing. Bad things happen to people/creatures. The most important thing is to be thankful that you (and hopefully your loved ones too) are safe and healthy (at least I hope you are! ), and to do everything in your power to keep things that way.

 

[Dream Symphony]

Well that's an awfully morbid outlook for all of us. And what has gotten so bad? So we have more crime than we used to...we also have a much larger population with a much larger poverty rate than we used to. But is it really so bad that you can't enjoy living? If so, then I feel really sorry for you.

I never said that I don't enjoy living. Though the world is wicked. Wars, famines everywhere. There are christians in other countries that are being persecuted for their faith and preaching the gospel. Some are killed, others are tortured. There was a preacher on missions in China who had all ten of his toe nails pulled out. My dad was preaching crusades in India, and a plot was uncovered to put a bomb under the stage and blow up my father and everyone else close to the bomb. These are only a few things. There are obviously things that you don't consider sin that the Bible describes as obomination. Things like Sexual Immorallity, drinking, drugs. This is still only a few things going on in the world. The world is moving farther and farther away from the pure teachings of Jesus Christ in the Bible. God is not just going to let everyone turn away from him and live evil lives forever. The Bible tells us of the coming of Christ when all children(not old enough to be accountable for their actions), and all believers in Christ(the only way to the father is through Jesus) will be spared from the 7 year tribulation(when the Antichrist will eventually take control). The tribulation will be mankinds last chance to turn from their wicked ways and follow Jesus.

I'm not trying to scare anyone, I'm just telling you what the Bible says.

Anyway, I'm not trying to antagonize you in any way, but you asked and I figured I'd offer one scenario. The discovery of dinosaur bones back in the early 1900's was devastating to the church. The bible says that man was created by god and were the first beings on this planet. Carbon dating has proven that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago and humans have only existed for about 30,000 years. There's no disputing this evidence that humans were not the first beings on this earth. the first intelligent beings, well that could be debated, but definitely not the first overall. I think what makes this contradiction so clear is the responses from church leaders as to the explanation of the dinosaurs. I heard one religious radio personality (don't know his name, but he's got a really monotone and strange voice) dismiss carbon dating as inaccurate. Inaccurate? By MILLIONS of years? I don't think so. The other explanation was that God first tried life with the dinosaurs and decided they didn't live up to his standard and he wiped them out, then creating man as his second try. Well, that doesn't work either as the Bible says we were created in God's image. So they couldn't have been talking about the dinosaurs unless God is a T-Rex!

Genesis 1:24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth every kind of animal—livestock, small animals, and wildlife.” And so it was. 25 God made all sorts of wild animals, livestock, and small animals, each able to reproduce more of its own kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make people in our image, to be like ourselves. They will be masters over all life—the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the livestock, wild animals, and small animals.”

New Living Translation

As you can see, God created all living creatures first. Then man. So obviously Dinosaurs were created along with the rest of the creatures. And lived at the same time as man, and were wiped out at the time of the great flood. I don't believe that the carbon dating has proven anything.

Check out this website: http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2.asp
Everything is explained very well.

 

[the_satanic_rabbit]

I believe in Yeast, Sugar, and other fermentables that make the wonderful god of alcohol. If one could only realize the healing properties of this religion.

 

[Yngvai X]

My dad was preaching crusades in India, and a plot was uncovered to put a bomb under the stage and blow up my father and everyone else close to the bomb.

No offense dude, but I know if I were a Hindu in India I wouldn't take too kindly to missionaries coming over and trying to tell me my belief system was wrong.

 

[Dream Symphony]

No offense dude, but I know if I were a Hindu in India I wouldn't take too kindly to missionaries coming over and trying to tell me my belief system was wrong.

I can see that. But thousands of other Hindu men and women saw the beauty of the gospel of Jesus Christ and converted. And also no matter how offensive somthing is to you, violence should not be an option. If someone trys to convert me to another religion I would not even think about trying to kill that person. It is God's job alone to judge someone for their actions.

 

[Dream Symphony]

I have a feeling that I am the only preachers kid on this board lol.

 

[theodyssey]

Do i think there is a God???? I believe there is proof that there is a god and that proof is beef jerky. How else could there be something so delicious if there were no god?

All joking aside, i think there is a God, but not necissarily some dude in the sky, or even a spirit or entity. My belief is God is all around us, within us, everything. The fact that there could be such a complex system IS God. It's different, but we'll go with that. Personally i don't adhere to any belief, mainly because i believe there is something to learn from all religions. No one is completely true.

All in all though, beef jerky really kicks ass.

 

[Cyclopssss]

What stuff has been proven that "goes against what the church says"? I'm not aware of anything at this time.
Also, I believe that God is not going to give humans the chance to try to figured out what happened. Things are getting so bad in the world right now, that the judgement of God is not far away. Jesus will be coming back soon. Then the 7 year tribulation described in the Bible will begin. Thats how I feel. We won't be here too much longer.

Oh Oh, not again.I don't want to insult you or anything, but these prophesies are false. I'll give you an example. In my country there was a secular religious community that was lead by a man who preached that on a certain date, his community would be chosen to travel up to the stars and be saved from the apocalypse that was coming. These people seperated themselves from the small village they lived in and waited there and prayed for the coming of their Saviour. Meanwhile the press and conserned familymembers of the members in that community waited around their center and tried to convince them there was not going to be any apocalypse. But their leader remained firm. "it will happen, on this date. Wel will ascend and be the chosen ones'". Well, needless to say, the date passed and nothing happened (well maybe some other micro-apocalypse we don't know anything about) but still their leader kept saying it would happen. If not on that date than surely somewhere in the future soon.

It is now a year or more later and these people have to back to this small community and live their lives with a shattered belief in their selves and a shattered self image. The family drama's that have ensued weren't big in the media, but I'm sure there were some serious rammefications. Every time I read something like your post I have to think of this example. Jesus will not let this happen.Jesus will come back soon. Well maybe he will and maybe he won't.

I'm not going to be waiting on him.

 

[Macy]

I agree. (YES, I DO!)

Wow, you made me really, really happy! I don't want to argue with you, I have enough shit going on in my life already. Peace.

 

[Alexander TG]

Will people who preach that the end of the world is nigh please kill themselves now and make that sentiment true for themselves.

 

[Dado-x]

Will people who preach that the end of the world is nigh please kill themselves now and make that sentiment true for themselves.

Amen to that.

 

[Dream Symphony]

Oh Oh, not again.I don't want to insult you or anything, but these prophesies are false. I'll give you an example. In my country there was a secular religious community that was lead by a man who preached that on a certain date, his community would be chosen to travel up to the stars and be saved from the apocalypse that was coming. These people seperated themselves from the small village they lived in and waited there and prayed for the coming of their Saviour. Meanwhile the press and conserned familymembers of the members in that community waited around their center and tried to convince them there was not going to be any apocalypse. But their leader remained firm. "it will happen, on this date. Wel will ascend and be the chosen ones'". Well, needless to say, the date passed and nothing happened (well maybe some other micro-apocalypse we don't know anything about) but still their leader kept saying it would happen. If not on that date than surely somewhere in the future soon.

It is now a year or more later and these people have to back to this small community and live their lives with a shattered belief in their selves and a shattered self image. The family drama's that have ensued weren't big in the media, but I'm sure there were some serious rammefications. Every time I read something like your post I have to think of this example. Jesus will not let this happen.Jesus will come back soon. Well maybe he will and maybe he won't.

I'm not going to be waiting on him.

No one knows the exact date that it will happen, and cannot predict the exact date. The Bible says he will come like a thief in the night. So it will be when we least expect it. It may happen this decade, but it could also be in a hundred years. I don't know when it will happen, but just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't. And there is also prophecy in the Bible yet to be fulfilled before it does happen. The Bible mentions that every man and women on the earth will have heard the gospel. There are still millions who have never heard of Jesus.