Off topic - Religion/personal beliefs
- Thread starter Alexander TG
- Start date
BornOfFire said:Nothing much my old nemesis. Yourself?
Nothin here either. Didn't realize you were a SX fan.
Looks like you've been on the board for a while. Longer than I have.
The Yngster
Member
I see where your coming from dude, I just figure that in a few billion years life is bound to pop up sooner or later, especially if Earth is the perfect planet for life (as you said). And I don't think your crazy at all, if you find strength in your religion thats great. Personally I think things are going great for me without the help of god, and I just don't see a need to devote my life to him.
The Yngster said:
I also have thought about how life might have been bound to pop up sooner or later, I just find it easier to believe in the higher power in control. That whole subject of how the universe was created and how the earth and us for that matter came to be is just so beyond our intelligence. Our minds can't possibly comprehend what actually happened. It drives me nuts just thinkin about it lol.
I am glad your life is going well. And I am glad to have been able to hang out and talk with you on this board(flame free
). Definitly a pleasure man.
The Yngster
Member
Yeah man, I always think of how its possible that every little detail fell perfectly into place.
I`m an atheist. While I don`t have the mentality of extreme condemners of judeo-christian philosophy like the writers over at anus.com, I certainly hold the Bible to have several pieces of false information, proof of it not being written by an omnipotent being, a book for the heart, not for the mind like so many seem to use it as. Take the description of celestial bodies in Genesis as an example; "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.". Whomever wrote this seemed oblivious to the fact that the moon has no light in itself, but is lighted by the sun. Maybe God skipped his science class?
Creationism is one of the most tragic wastes of money and energy I see. To think that people still hold on to archaic philosophies like YEC and its less moronic brother OEC is sad, just sad. I urge everyone who spouts the lies of Kent Hovind, Duane Gish or any of the vituperating and vicious preachers of creationism to read the FAQ on talkorigins.org, which so excellently rebuts the common arguments used to "stump" the common man and start building his faith.
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-qa.html
One thing I also object to, is that I can live life as a saint, but if I don`t believe in God, I go to hell. If I sin but repent, I get to heaven. Smells like submission-tactics to me.
These are objections to the Bible and organized religion, mind you. I have no problem at all with personal christianity, which I do not find detrimental to a persons psyche; as a matter of fact, many of the christians I know are some of the happiest, nicest people I know, because they have a purpose, an underlying knowledge of that someone is watching over them, someone is worth living their life for even if they lose everything. While I cannot and will not take part in this myself, I certainly understand their reasons for doing so.
Creationism is one of the most tragic wastes of money and energy I see. To think that people still hold on to archaic philosophies like YEC and its less moronic brother OEC is sad, just sad. I urge everyone who spouts the lies of Kent Hovind, Duane Gish or any of the vituperating and vicious preachers of creationism to read the FAQ on talkorigins.org, which so excellently rebuts the common arguments used to "stump" the common man and start building his faith.
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-qa.html
One thing I also object to, is that I can live life as a saint, but if I don`t believe in God, I go to hell. If I sin but repent, I get to heaven. Smells like submission-tactics to me.
These are objections to the Bible and organized religion, mind you. I have no problem at all with personal christianity, which I do not find detrimental to a persons psyche; as a matter of fact, many of the christians I know are some of the happiest, nicest people I know, because they have a purpose, an underlying knowledge of that someone is watching over them, someone is worth living their life for even if they lose everything. While I cannot and will not take part in this myself, I certainly understand their reasons for doing so.
OrestesMantra
Member
Harp Heaven said:I`m an atheist. While I don`t have the mentality of extreme condemners of judeo-christian philosophy like the writers over at anus.com, I certainly hold the Bible to have several pieces of false information, proof of it not being written by an omnipotent being, a book for the heart, not for the mind like so many seem to use it as. Take the description of celestial bodies in Genesis as an example; "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.". Whomever wrote this seemed oblivious to the fact that the moon has no light in itself, but is lighted by the sun. Maybe God skipped his science class?
Creationism is one of the most tragic wastes of money and energy I see. To think that people still hold on to archaic philosophies like YEC and its less moronic brother OEC is sad, just sad. I urge everyone who spouts the lies of Kent Hovind, Duane Gish or any of the vituperating and vicious preachers of creationism to read the FAQ on talkorigins.org, which so excellently rebuts the common arguments used to "stump" the common man and start building his faith.
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-qa.html
One thing I also object to, is that I can live life as a saint, but if I don`t believe in God, I go to hell. If I sin but repent, I get to heaven. Smells like submission-tactics to me.
These are objections to the Bible and organized religion, mind you. I have no problem at all with personal christianity, which I do not find detrimental to a persons psyche; as a matter of fact, many of the christians I know are some of the happiest, nicest people I know, because they have a purpose, an underlying knowledge of that someone is watching over them, someone is worth living their life for even if they lose everything. While I cannot and will not take part in this myself, I certainly understand their reasons for doing so.
I skimmed through that website, and it didnt cover much.So heres my challenge:
www.creationscience.com
Please feel free to skim through some of the articles on this website, and answer them/debate them any way you please. Have a nice day
Cyclopssss
Member
Didn`t cover much? Talkorigins.org is a vast site and covers a lot more than what you can gather in a single skim. I printed 10% of the articles and it provided me with reading material for a whole summer...OrestesMantra said:I skimmed through that website, and it didnt cover much.So heres my challenge:
www.creationscience.com
Please feel free to skim through some of the articles on this website, and answer them/debate them any way you please. Have a nice day
I`ve been to creationscience.com before, read a substantial part of it`s articles and it falls nicely into place with all the other sites like it, e.g. answersingenesis.org. I mean, what person with a serious, scientific mindset would print anything like this?:
Not providing any quotes, any references or any opportunity for the scientific community to give a retort, the author lashes out to "build faith". Or how about this quote, some paragraphs below:
How anyone can take a site like this seriously is beyond me. In every article, there is fervent bashing of the (apparently) secular scientists, loaded with personal bias. Even Answers in Genesis is better than this crap.
I`m sorry for my heated replies, but I know a great deal about the Creation Science/Evolution debate, and after reading about the lies Kent Hovind and his ilk have come up with when preaching to the choir, I can answer in no other way. But I digress. We`re just warming up... For the first strike, I present you with the dreaded FLOOD GEOLOGY FAQ, which skewers the Bibles presentation of the story and makes a barbeque of it at the bonfire. Have an excellent day.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
Macy
Traitor (but nice pic)
You can't read the Bible and think you're unveiled the fraud by saying things such as "oh, they say the world was created in seven days but we know it takes billions of years", calling that proof. It doesn't prove anything because the Bible isn't meant to be taken litterally. Many Christians do take every word as it was written, but that is a very shallow way of thinking. The point of Christianity is to love one another. Not to learn about the laws of physics. And that is the same for all religions, they all have a message about love (minus a few), which is positive.
The thing that people are arguing over when it comes to religion isn't the message of love, I think we'd all be very happy without all the crap that goes on in the world. The argument is about the rules and limitations brought in by those in power, things that don't allow us to think and do what we want. And that has very little to do with the religion itself. I'd like to end my post with a few words from one of my favorite bands:
"Religion and sex are powerplays
Manipulate the people for the money they pay
Selling skin, selling God -
The numbers look the same on their credit cards"
The thing that people are arguing over when it comes to religion isn't the message of love, I think we'd all be very happy without all the crap that goes on in the world. The argument is about the rules and limitations brought in by those in power, things that don't allow us to think and do what we want. And that has very little to do with the religion itself. I'd like to end my post with a few words from one of my favorite bands:
"Religion and sex are powerplays
Manipulate the people for the money they pay
Selling skin, selling God -
The numbers look the same on their credit cards"
Harp Heaven said:I certainly hold the Bible to have several pieces of false information, proof of it not being written by an omnipotent being, a book for the heart, not for the mind like so many seem to use it as. Take the description of celestial bodies in Genesis as an example; "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.". Whomever wrote this seemed oblivious to the fact that the moon has no light in itself, but is lighted by the sun. Maybe God skipped his science class?
.
Sorry dude, but you've been misled. There is no false info whatsoever in the Bible. Every story actually happened and is told how it happened.
Genesis 1:16 - "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also"
It doesn't say anything about the moon being a light source. All it says is "and the lesser light to rule the night". And the light at night is a lesser light. Yes the light is reflected off the moon, but the Bible doesn't say that it is or isn't. And why does that matter anyways? Does God just have to tell everybody the details of the Universe? No, he doesn't. Because that stuff is not really relevant.
Zax666
The Prince Of Ice. Almost
I still think it's too COMFORTABLE to believe in afterlife. "Ya see, son, when you die, you don't actually die, you just move on to the next world".
Same with reincarnation.
Same with reincarnation.
Well, I`m a Christian, or at least, trying to be one. I find it very hard to believe in something i haven`t "experienced". I`ve tried, but now i wonder if i should just give up the wholething, any advices from you Christians around here?
scanner313
The EYE
I was raised Catholic and at this point in my life (I'm 33) and for a few years back I have no belief in religion or God. And I'll tell you, it's not a comforting thought to give up something that (as childish as it might seem) was always there telling you things will be ok and that you'll live forever in heaven, etc. However, it's now what I believe to be.
I believe that the concept of God came out of humanity's lack of understanding of the world around them. I think this is clearly evidenced by the Aztec Indians, Incan Indians, etc. as they believed the sun was a god, the moon was a god, the seasons were controlled by gods, etc. They had no way of knowing why these things occurred, so they assigned responsibility to a higher power. I believe this is exactly what happened with all civilizations and it has become so heavily rooted in society that people can't bare to live without it.
I don't believe that you need religion to be a good, ethical person. I believe that the true nature of people (well, most people) is to be kind and courteous to others and to treat people with respect. The idea that you need god to guide you in this endevour doesn't sit well with me. I believe people need to be responsible for themselves and not rely on a "faith" in a higher power. So many people talk about having personal experience that proves to them that god exists. I have no problem if they want to believe that, but the term "faith" means to believe in something without proof.
Anyway, I don't tell anyone what to believe or how to live, but the one thing that angers me is when someone tries to tell me that I need god's salvation (which happens here and there, and always stated in a nice way). The arrogance that they know something I don't really bugs me. I don't need anyone to tell me how to live my life but myself.
I believe that the concept of God came out of humanity's lack of understanding of the world around them. I think this is clearly evidenced by the Aztec Indians, Incan Indians, etc. as they believed the sun was a god, the moon was a god, the seasons were controlled by gods, etc. They had no way of knowing why these things occurred, so they assigned responsibility to a higher power. I believe this is exactly what happened with all civilizations and it has become so heavily rooted in society that people can't bare to live without it.
I don't believe that you need religion to be a good, ethical person. I believe that the true nature of people (well, most people) is to be kind and courteous to others and to treat people with respect. The idea that you need god to guide you in this endevour doesn't sit well with me. I believe people need to be responsible for themselves and not rely on a "faith" in a higher power. So many people talk about having personal experience that proves to them that god exists. I have no problem if they want to believe that, but the term "faith" means to believe in something without proof.
Anyway, I don't tell anyone what to believe or how to live, but the one thing that angers me is when someone tries to tell me that I need god's salvation (which happens here and there, and always stated in a nice way). The arrogance that they know something I don't really bugs me. I don't need anyone to tell me how to live my life but myself.
Pharaoh
Member
shredmaster said:
Not advice, but there is a pure simplicity within the complexity. I keep my faith very simple and very personal, and we're raising our kids this way. They seem to appreciate it, and there's room for them to go whichever way they choose to, and whenever. If you're really into reading the Bible, you have to translate using a Concordance. There is way to much to be misinterpreted if you don't. Misinterpretation has screwed things up so much already.
Harp Heaven, your comment "many of the christians I know are some of the happiest, nicest people I know" is interesting. I know atheists who are wonderful people, true honest love pours from their souls. But I think that people are what they are, not defined by their religious beliefs or non-beliefs. People are born with free will to choose. Circumstances along the pathway can alter the "type" of person they become, but such " purpose, an underlying knowledge" as you put it, is something that they can use to overcome obstacles and help pave their life's course. It's an option for them, as well as any other option such as drugs, therapy, isolation, etc..etc...
And scanner313...I agree, about the arrogance. It drives me nuts.
Thanks, all for keeping this thread OK.
The Yngster
Member
scanner313 said:
I agree 100%, I think the reason people credit God for creating existence is because science has yet to provide an answer. Slowly humans are learning more about how the universe works, and most of the stuff that has been proven goes against what the church says. To me its only a matter of time (probably not in my lifetime) before humans develop the technology to truely find out what happened.
The Yngster said:
What stuff has been proven that "goes against what the church says"? I'm not aware of anything at this time.
Also, I believe that God is not going to give humans the chance to try to figured out what happened. Things are getting so bad in the world right now, that the judgement of God is not far away. Jesus will be coming back soon. Then the 7 year tribulation described in the Bible will begin. Thats how I feel. We won't be here too much longer.
scanner313
The EYE
Dream Symphony said:
Well that's an awfully morbid outlook for all of us. And what has gotten so bad? So we have more crime than we used to...we also have a much larger population with a much larger poverty rate than we used to. But is it really so bad that you can't enjoy living? If so, then I feel really sorry for you.
Anyway, I'm not trying to antagonize you in any way, but you asked and I figured I'd offer one scenario. The discovery of dinosaur bones back in the early 1900's was devastating to the church. The bible says that man was created by god and were the first beings on this planet. Carbon dating has proven that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago and humans have only existed for about 30,000 years. There's no disputing this evidence that humans were not the first beings on this earth. the first intelligent beings, well that could be debated, but definitely not the first overall. I think what makes this contradiction so clear is the responses from church leaders as to the explanation of the dinosaurs. I heard one religious radio personality (don't know his name, but he's got a really monotone and strange voice) dismiss carbon dating as inaccurate. Inaccurate? By MILLIONS of years? I don't think so. The other explanation was that God first tried life with the dinosaurs and decided they didn't live up to his standard and he wiped them out, then creating man as his second try. Well, that doesn't work either as the Bible says we were created in God's image. So they couldn't have been talking about the dinosaurs unless God is a T-Rex!
Anyway, I'm not trying to cooerce you into my way of thinking. I'm not going to tell anyone how to live their life or what to believe so please don't consider this an attack of any kind. You have your beliefs, I have mine, and nobody will know who is right until we are dead. My only point with this was to show that there are great contradictions in the Bible and that as much as religious people proclaim there is a god, there is no evidence to support that, so don't try to tell those of us who don't believe that there is (not you personally, I'm talking about those who try to testify to us non-believers).
