Official Off Topic Thread

I've always had somewhat mixed feelings for Ayreon. On one hand, his keyboard and guitar chops are undeniable and he writes some really awesome stuff, but on the other (like Kenneth already noted), his lyrics are sometimes a bit subpar and often cheesy. His list of guest musicians is always beyond impressive, but sometimes having all those people around ends up being more a burden than a boon.

I'll definitely check the upcoming one out nevertheless.
 
It could have been a little less orchestrated and had the bass turned up just a notch or two. Or three.

Great arrangements. But where is Way of the Fire or whatever it was called?

Too short. Like, EP short. Only 3 songs and two intros. I know it's split in two but it's kind of ridiculous.
 
Sure, the total running time is too long for an EP. But as far as actual song-material go, it's essentially 30-35 mins of music.
I do like the stuff in the intros though. The asian stuff is pretty cool. But it's not what I listen to Wintersun for. The interlude stuff in the S/T album are way cooler.
 
Just listened to it and holy smokes! I love it. Excellent arrangements, quite musical and very full of energy. At times it reminds me of the S/T album, at times it's more Blind Guardian, at other times it reminds me of Follow the Reaper-era Children of Bodom, etc. But I gotta say it's still Wintersun and it's still Scandinavian (which is good). Love the vocal arrangements, they've played more with those in this album than in the S/T. The orchestral stuff is great, it's there all the time, making the album a bit more polished and less "in your face" than most of the S/T stuff. The first song (9 minutes) is entirely a movie score kind of thing; Asian, 'Last Samurai' kind of thing. It's good but I think it's overdone. A 2-3 minute prelude would have been more than enough, and then some actual metal. Production is good. I think the bass level is the usual for Wintersun and for this kind of style in general, especially with all the stuff going on in the mix.

My only major criticism is that 90% of the music is in a similar kind of 'mood' (I call it 'celebratory'), there is not much variety in that area. There almost aren't any truly Wintersun-flavored dark/sad moments which is kinda weird for them. —It's one of the things I listen to Wintersun for. I still like the S/T record better, but this is most definitely a good one IMO. My favorite song is 'Sons Of Winter And Stars'. It blew me away.

Now it's your turn Symphony X. :)
 
Phanto said:
as far as actual song-material go, it's essentially 30-35 mins of music.
Click to expand...

I haven't even heard the album so I don't exactly know what I'm writing about, but I'm assuming the stuff you consider something else than "actual song material" is still music in some form, which makes me wonder why you would give it a separate label and not count it as a part of the "essential" running time of the album.
 
Honestly, there is exactly 40 minutes of music. But like maybe 5 minutes of it is somewhat "ambient".

How is the first track 9 minutes? I'm pretty sure my track says 4 minutes.
 
Wander said:
How is the first track 9 minutes? I'm pretty sure my track says 4 minutes.
Click to expand...

My bad. I don't know why I typed 9.

Sauna said:
I haven't even heard the album so I don't exactly know what I'm writing about, but I'm assuming the stuff you consider something else than "actual song material" is still music in some form, which makes me wonder why you would give it a separate label and not count it as a part of the "essential" running time of the album.
Click to expand...

Because in rock/metal land, only music with drums and guitars is considered "music". Didn't you know? :p

I still think it's a little overdone there and is way too film score-like, but it's by no means a major complaint for me. Then again, I'm into that kind of music, some people aren't. People go to Wintersun for metal music, so I can understand Phanto's opinion.
 
Sauna maybe you should start reading entire posts when replying. I would also recommend stop doing out-of-context quoting.

Marwen understands what I meant.
 
Calm down, man. :lol:

I read the post and I got what you meant, I just find it interesting (and a bit strange) how people sometimes see non-metal stuff on metal albums as something less than proper music. It wasn't a jab at you or anything, I was actually hoping you'd reply with something that would clarify that point of view, like Marwen did.

And I like quoting the exact part of a post I'm replying to. It adds focus, and the original post still stays right there for all to see, so I can't really mess with the context anyway.
 
"Calm down man". It's not like I'm worked up. Not every argument on the internet is heated.

I don't see non-metal as less than proper music, but when an album comes out after 6 years it's a bit of a let down when it's just over 40 minutes long (+10 secs) and have so much intro/orchestration stuff. I enjoy mood-setters and calmer parts to create dynamics in an album, but I feel it's in bad proportions.
Jari does the Ensiferum-metal parts best, so I'm disappointed there's not more of that. That's essentially what I mean.

After listening to it more I think the orchestration is too heavy overall. Too often it's just a boring layer of strings.
The S/T was tight as fuck, had very clear fast riffs, clear drums and much better keys and more subtle orchestrations. For instance compare how much more subtle the strings are in Starchild than in Sons of Winter and Stars.

In comparison, I would say Time I is metalized symphonics while the S/T is symphonic metal.

While S/T would break down into acoustic parts or simply slower pace, Time I breaks down to something that I can only describe as "Nightwish symphonics". While S/T would burst into fuck-yo-mama riffage and blast beats, Time I breaks into orchestral hits and aaaah-choirs.

There is awesomeness on Time I but it's masked by stuff I don't care as much about.
That said, it's overall a really good album. But not entirely what I hoped it would be.

BTW
Listen to Time at ~5:25 where he goes "you want so much from me" or something. What the fuck does he shout in between the clean vox? Not even with a lyrics book could you hear what he says. The orchestra is overpowering. It's like cooking and putting in 4 cloves of garlic instead of 1.
 
Phanto said:
I don't see non-metal as less than proper music, but when an album comes out after 6 years it's a bit of a let down when it's just over 40 minutes long (+10 secs) and have so much intro/orchestration stuff. I enjoy mood-setters and calmer parts to create dynamics in an album, but I feel it's in bad proportions.

After listening to it more I think the orchestration is too heavy overall. Too often it's just a boring layer of strings.
Click to expand...

I've not heard Time I yet, so I can't comment on this.

BUT I did want to quote this part because this is EXACTLY the beef I have with Ayreon. So many top flight musicians and vocalists and it just is a wash of strings and orchestrated "parts". Not music.
 
A lot of people are complaining of the mix being too synth/orchestration heavy. I don't really think it is. Well ok, yes, it is really heavy in the synths and often times sounds more like a soundtrack than a metal album, but I just don't really mind that.

In fact, the reaction seems to have been quite mixed with some people touting it as the album of the year and an almost equal (or at least as vocal) group of people slamming it as the disappointment of the year. It seems to be a classic case of some people getting what they wanted and others expecting something very different.

I think it's a good album. I don't think comparison to Arjen Lucassen would be fair. In fact, I just remembered that I still haven't listened to the second Star One album that came out a couple of years back so I just put it playing... And Ken, I must say what you said back then is absolutely right. It is almost unlistenable with its awful production that doesn't leave space for anything. I can promise that listening to Time I is not sonically even near as unbearable despite it having a lot more stuff going on at the same time if anything. In fact, despite some people saying that they hate the mix, I'd actually have to commend Jari for making it sound somewhat dynamic.

...Actually, I just put "Sons of Winter and Stars" to audacity to have a look and my ears don't lie. There is room even in the very heaviest parts with blastpeats and choirs and orchestra all going full steam. Very refreshing compared to almost every other recent metal album I've bothered to check out on audacity.

Also, I'm now really shocked about how bad that second Star One album sounds. How the hell did Arjen let that happen? The first Star One album or The Human Equation sound fine (and I actually like those albums), but Victims of the Modern Age is actually just as difficult to listen to as Death Magnetic or something.The production buries any good ideas he might have had this time around. Absolutely shocking.



E: Oh, btw. you can listen to the album (in pretty decent quality, I might add) over here until tomorrow: http://www.wintersun.fi/album-stream/
 
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