"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

[NAD]

Browsing other non-UM forums lately I've seen some wacky views mostly stemming from the latest Chechen issue (this recent hotspot has been going on for well over 5 years people, if you're shocked you're simply uninformed), and it is readily apparent that a lot of Americans still don't know what the hell terrorism even is. I've always seen them as a non-governmental insurgent group, generally using violence (but not exclusively) to attain their goals.

Anyhow, so is one man's terrorist another man's freedom fighter? Are they all bad? Did you know what the word meant before 9/11, and do you know what it means now? Do you wear your PLO t-shirt to Walmart every Sunday?

Talk amongst yourselves, etc. If this thread goes ignored I'll post teh boobies.

 

[Krilons Resa]

Nothing really truly means anything. It's all subjective.

 

[NAD]

You fucking ass clown...

 

[Krilons Resa]

Nippledick

 

[spaffe]

well obviously the views differ depending on who you're asking, sharon and the residents of say ramallah has somewhat different views: from one sharon is the terrorist and from one the liberator and vice versa with the suicide bombers.
but the one who sets the truth is the one in power of the media

not sure how interesting that post was, perhaps booobies would have been preferable, oh well :|

 

[unhinged]

I've lived in Northern Ireland all my life, born in Belfast etc
i know what a terrorist is,

these days in this country they're just fucking criminal organisations with a cause to justify thier protection rackets and intimidation

 

[Papa Josh]

I've worn my "Fuck Israel" shirt to Walmart, but not on Sunday. Have worn a Cradle Of Filth shirt to a very upper class grocery store on a Sunday though. Damn near mortified one old lady.

 

[JayKeeley]

Anyhow, so is one man's terrorist another man's freedom fighter?

When America fought for its independence from the British, were those rebels considered terrorists?

*waits for the response: "Only the French ones". *

Are they all bad?

Haha, that's a loaded question. Goes back to that subjective thing Doomcifer said.

Did you know what the word meant before 9/11

You dirty yank. Does this question go out to non-Americans? See unhinged answer about the IRA. I don't think I've lived a single day in my entire life not being under the shadow of some alleged terrorism activity.

Do you wear your PLO t-shirt to Walmart every Sunday?

If I did that here, the hacidic jews would probably applaud me. They're a Jewish sect that denounce the actions of Israel as an apartheid state and absolutely detest that thug, Ariel Sharon.

Talk amongst yourselves, etc. If this thread goes ignored I'll post teh boobies.

Boobies are never out of context. Lack of boobies is what causes all this grief in the first place.

 

[NAD]

but the one who sets the truth is the one in power of the media

Yes.

When America fought for its independence from the British, were those rebels considered terrorists?

Yes. We had no government other than British rule (well, maybe some basics but the real control was across the pond), so yes I would say the American Revolution was fought (and won ) by terrorists. Heh, this would be an EXCELLENT thing to remind Americans of, it's just too bad that many have forgotten that our right to protest the actions of government is you know, fundamental to this country existing.

You dirty yank. Does this question go out to non-Americans?

What the fook do you think!? I was using that rhetorical question as an example of modern American idiocy, ya limey. :Spin:

 

[Ayeka]

I've lived in Northern Ireland all my life, born in Belfast etc
i know what a terrorist is,

these days in this country they're just fucking criminal organisations with a cause to justify thier protection rackets and intimidation

That's pretty much how it goes in Chechnya as well (I remember news on fighting there about 10 years ago). Warlords scrapping over land in order to push drugs is what I hear. You got Afghanistan a stone's throw away, so obviously you could make a killing from skag. For that reason I'm all up for the Russians just sending in their tanks and burning the entire region to the ground

As far as the hostage situation went, I think the Russians should have released the prisoners that the terrorists wanted freed...but had them shot first. At the side time, the government compiles a list of Chechnyan dissidents in the country. They announce to the terrorists: "We have freed your prisoners, here are the bodies. You didn't say if you wanted 'em released alive, dummies! And if you lay a finger on those kids we will arrest and shoot xthousand people (terrorists kill 50 kids for every one of their people killed...so kill more Chechnyans than there are kids), and step up some warfare in your territory. Basically: stop being dicks or you're all dead"

If the terrorists see sense and surrender, have them publicly executed. Then go ahead and do the rest of that stuff anyway. See who wants to be a terrorist after that!

 

[speed]

First of all, the terrorists have already won. Our government, ideals, etc, have all been comprimised to fight "terrorism". The terrorists provide the perfect foil for any government that wishes to expand its autocratic powers. Protection from fear, war for safety, its out of Hitler and Orwell. Its so disgusting how many American dont see it.

Yet we are stll left with th problem, just what the hell do we do about terrorism and the middle east? Its obvious doing nothing didnt work. Invading Iraq didnt work, supporting israel doesnt work. I think the only way we can win, is to argue their own religion with them.. These terrorists are reading a far different Quran than what is written. They are taking things out of context.

Im surprised the Russians only have to deal with terrorism in Checnya, hell there are great numbers of muslims still living within the realms of Mother Russia. Frankly its surprising the arab terrorists dont attack Russia with the same abandon as they do Americans. Think how many millions of muslims are under Russian domination. Think of all the territory Russia gobbled up from the tatars, the khaganates, the turks.

I guess the problem is we are the great satan, as no one is importing Russian ideals, government, material goods etc. - thus we are the tempters with many golden apples of vacous sin.

 

[Erik]

Yet we are stll left with th problem, just what the hell do we do about terrorism and the middle east? Its obvious doing nothing didnt work. Invading Iraq didnt work, supporting israel doesnt work. I think the only way we can win, is to argue their own religion with them.. These terrorists are reading a far different Quran than what is written. They are taking things out of context.

You can't be reasonable with extremists.

 

[speed]

True Erik, but by providing them with martyrs, by denying a pan islamic state in the middle east, by being more powerful than islam the supposdely perfect religion that was to be the final revelation- the combination of law, government, religion, etc; what the hell are we supposed to do?

How can one argue with people whom believe they have been chosen- or must act to fulfill the Quran, when their interpretation is erroneous? Personally, I say we encourage a sunni islamic state- and well leave Iran be Iran. This Sunni state does not have the resources to become as powerful as they once were under the turks and the caliphates, and they are pretty far behind the rest of the world already. If islam is reunited into a single state- as Mohammed intended- then these terrorists will strike their own government, as they did centuries past. The assassins, were a medieval sect of Shiite extremists(terrorists) who killed islamic leaders who they felt didnt follow the true path of islam.

So, I guess what I am saying is, we have to give them an excuse to look inward- not outward. Ive been reading a bit of islamic/middle eastern history lately.

 

[JayKeeley]

These terrorists are reading a far different Quran than what is written. They are taking things out of context.

Yes, the people flying planes into buildings etc are going AGAINST everything the Quran says in every way possible.

HOWEVER, even "level headed" Muslims are opposed to American foreign policy. They may not condone terrorist activity by groups like Al Queda, but still they are certainly NOT happy about US military bases being positioned on their holy ground, or the support of Israel.

Frankly its surprising the arab terrorists dont attack Russia with the same abandon as they do Americans.

Abandon? I don't think we've seen anything yet. Shouldn't we just assume that terrorists have plutonium already?

The strangest thing to hear though was people asking 'why?' on 9/12, when the rest of the world was thinking, 'welcome to the party'.

 

[NAD]

So, I guess what I am saying is, we have to give them an excuse to look inward- not outward. Ive been reading a bit of islamic/middle eastern history lately.

I like this. Extremists like this will be unhappy about something (well, most people act like the grass is greener on the other side I suppose), I think if we stop dicking with the Middle East that may give them a reason to concentrate on their own problems with one another.

Or we'll be seen as weak by caving in to their wishes and then Canada will invade, I don't know.

 

[NAD]

The strangest thing to hear though was people asking 'why?' on 9/12, when the rest of the world was thinking, 'welcome to the party'.

You're never gonna start charging me for quoting you in my signature are you?

 

[Black Winter Day]

To me:

freedom fighter = violence against oppressors
terrorist = violence against oppressors INCLUDING innocents

That's a big difference to me, and fuck you if you disagree. < 0__0 >

 

[Erik]

Which realistically means that the little guy is always a terrorist then, because what the fuck can Chechnyans or Palestinians do against their oppressing governments? Try something and they'll have a fucking tank turret right between their eyes in 30 seconds... Not that I condone killing innocent people to get what you want, but while futile in 99% of the cases it is the only way they have of POSSIBLY making themselves heard

 

[NAD]

freedom fighter = violence against oppressors
terrorist = violence against oppressors INCLUDING innocents

So you don't consider either to necessarily be non-governmental then.

I agree with Erik on this. I don't approve of killing innocents, but small groups have no chance against a military. Besides, one goal of these groups is to get their message heard. How does one make an effect if you walk up to a military base with a few rocks in your hands and get runover by a tank that didn't even see you?

 

[Krilons Resa]

Exactly. Freedom Fighter is a dumb term.