ORANGE PPC4X12 Speaker Cabinet : First impression = buyers remorse

[ChristianN]

***My impressions after 2 weeks can be found on page 2, and I am actually happy with the cab now.

Amp: 5150 Block Letter
Cab: Orange PPC4x12 made in England with Celestion V30's (Vinatge 30) that say "Ipswitch"
Boost: Maxon VOP9
EQ in FX LOOP: Older BOSS GE-7 7 band EQ

Old Cab: Marshall 1960A JCM 900 with G12T-75 speakers (probably made in the 90's)

"As soon as I plugged into the Orange, I could feel something missing and was totally disappointed."

"The 1960A sounded much more "Hi-Fi" while the Orange sounded "constricted", not necesarily "focused"."

I know this may be subjective, but Here'ere's my story:

This was a crushing experience because I've wanted this cab for 15 years and have finally been able to afford one. Unfortunately, I haven't played through one in about 15 years too and not even "Orange Full Line dealers" in my area carried them in stock, which really pissed me off. They all told me they had to be special ordered. One time, I even drove 1 1/2 hrs to go check one out and the store didn't have any.

So unfortunately I've never been able to A/B this cab with anything, but after seeing great reviews everywhere of how thick and great sounding this cab was in comparison to other manufacturers (even bogner and mesa), I took the plunge and ordered one.

I was incredibly excited to receive it because I thought it was going to be an obvious step up from my 1960A but... As soon as I plugged into the Orange, I could feel something missing and was totally disappointed.

I thought maybe my ears weren't working right at that moment, so I plugged back into my 1960A and the difference was unbelievable.

The 1960 sounded much more "open". My idea of more open is that the highs were much more present and the lows were more powerful.

I heard that the Orange takes bass well compared to other cabs and that you might need to crank up the bass or something, so I tried. I had the bass and resonance on my 5150 on full and it it still couldn't match the 1960A on Bass: 6 and Resonance: 4. Then I tried to crank the bass on the EQ. I got more bass but it still didn't sound as good.

I then tried messing with my treble, presence, and more boss EQ settings. Unfortunately, everything that I did caused my sound to be significantly more harsh.

I went back and forth between both cabs messing with all my settings and the results were the same, so I decided to build my tone from the ground up using the Orange, but still no luck.

Paying about $1000 for this cab, I was devastated.

The 1960A sounded much more "Hi-Fi" while the Orange sounded "constricted"... not necesarily "focused". The mids were a bit more present, but completely sacrificing the lows and highs which had to be boosted with EQ, causing harshness.

In a couple of days, I will be getting another 5150 in and will perform the same tests to see if there is a difference.

I might also switch the speakers around and see if that helps. Hopefully it's just a question of breaking in the V30's, but the difference is so noticeable right now that I doubt it.

I am sorry I can't provide any hi-fi clips but my current recording situation is not "very very" at the moment.

 

[Rockchops]

I haven't tried the orange, but I don't think it can be that bad, especially with lows, the 1960 with the 5150 sounds sounds tiny and harsh, at least in my experience

 

[006]

the 1960 with the 5150 sounds sounds tiny and harsh, at least in my experience

+1

 

[Harry Hughes]

Yeah, not surprised at all.
The general consensus around this forum is that the Orange cabs are not good tracking cabs for metal.
Even the best clips I've heard of them sound boxy, stuffy and the upper mids just sound kinda wrong.
Dunno about the rest of the world, but Mesa Boogie Recto cabs and Orange cabs cost about the same in Australia, so it's an easy choice to just get a Boogie cab.

 

[JeffTD]

I'd take an Orange over a stock 1960 any day of the week - let those speakers break in.

 

[Omega_Void]

I'd take an Orange over a stock 1960 any day of the week

+1

let those speakers break in.

+1000

The real sound of the cab won't start happening until you've put some mileage on the speakers.

 

[derfbonker]

Oranges are definetly very mid-rangey, but i have heard amazing results from them (in person, not recorded). You say you tried to build you tone from the ground up, well sounds like a good idea, i would keep trying, there is alot of tone to be heard from that cab. . . If you know how to get it.

 

[Proggm]

The very same happened to me when I bought my Mesa Stiletto 4x12. It's actually funny, because I had exactly the same cab you have (1960a) and had a very similar first impression of the newer cab. But don't let that fool you: as I kept playing, reamping and experimenting, the sound got progressively better. Now the Mesa is my go-to cab, hands down. Let those speakers break in; reamp long tracks at a moderately loud volume.

 

[Melb_shredder]

Don't let the 1960a fool you. That more open sound you talk about translates to tubby lows and piercing highs when recording it generally. That being said, I've never had good results with the orange cabs. Toooooo British for me.

 

[Josh Burgess]

I'd definitely take the Orange over a 1960A, but I like my Mesa a lot more than I liked the Orange 4x12 I had. I know what you mean about the cab... it's very compressed and kinda muffled sounding...

 

[ChristianN]

I haven't tried the orange, but I don't think it can be that bad, especially with lows, the 1960 with the 5150 sounds sounds tiny and harsh, at least in my experience

I dunno man. Although it can get a bit flabby at times depending on how I play and set the bass/resonance, the 1960A clearly has more low end.

I gotta crank the low end on the Orange to match it... Scratch that cos it doesn't even really match it unless I REALLY boost the BOSS EQ, which makes the lows sound really bad.

Usually, with the 1960A I only boost the BOSS 7 band EQ pedal in the FX loop 1-1.5 notches on the lowest frequency and 1-1.5 notches on the highest frequency. Nothing major, just a little tiny bit just to enhance the lows and bring out a little bit of clarity/presence in the highs.

On the Orange, I'm not only cranking the Bass/Resonance, but the lows 4 notches and the highs 3 and tapering down the preceding frequencies. I feel like sometimes I even need to cut a couple mid/high frequencies.

 

[ChristianN]

+1
+1000
The real sound of the cab won't start happening until you've put some mileage on the speakers.

I sure hope so! But until then I'll be wretchedly frustrated.

However, I can see how breaking in speakers can improve your sound, but man, to make it change this much I might have to hit 'em with a sledgehammer. Not kidding.

 

[::XeS::]

The real sound of the cab won't start happening until you've put some mileage on the speakers.

You can accellerate the break-in procedure with this advice:

"Before breaking it in it's advisable to "warm up" the speaker gently for a few minutes with low-level playing or background hum.
Break in a speaker with a fat, clean tone: turn up the power amp volume to full, and control the level with the preamp gain. Use a level that will be quite loud, but not painful in a normal size room.
Have the bass and mid up full, and the treble at least half. On your guitar, use the middle pick up position (if your guitar has more than one pick up) and play for 10-15 minutes using lots of open chords, and chunky percussive playing. This will get the cone moving, and should excite all the cone modes and get everything to settle in nicely. The speaker will continue to mature over the years, but this will get it 95% of the way to tonal perfection in the shortest time."

 

[ChristianN]

Don't let the 1960a fool you. That more open sound you talk about translates to tubby lows and piercing highs when recording it generally. That being said, I've never had good results with the orange cabs. Toooooo British for me.

I can see that happening. That's a big reason I wanted to change from the 1960A. I already don't find it's sound perfect and even less when recorded... Just wanted a step up improvement.

This quest for tone always drives me nuts. Is it too much to ask to have a cab/mic/preamp/interface that translates well to recordings?

I should have really bought this from sweetwater/zzounds/musician's friend or somewhere I could return it and exchange for a Mesa to try out.

Now in regards to the Mesa, I was really trying to avoid it because it's waaay too overused by everyone; and although I use some of the equipment, my style is a little bit different than most. But I guess everyone using it means "tried and tested" in this case...

Call it silly and maybe sacrilegious towards metal, but I was also trying to avoid the blackness of the Mesa cab. Black has ruled half of my life. I need something else to look at

So far the design and the orange color are totally for me, but the sound is falling very short. In a few days I will post back my results.. or perhaps as I go along. Albeit the same amp, my other 5150 (which is a 5150II) should be coming in the mail by Friday, so I'll also have another amp to run through it for some more tinkering.

Thanks for the input so far.

 

[ChristianN]

You can accellerate the break-in procedure with this advice:

"Before breaking it in it's advisable to "warm up" the speaker gently for a few minutes with low-level playing or background hum.
Break in a speaker with a fat, clean tone: turn up the power amp volume to full, and control the level with the preamp gain. Use a level that will be quite loud, but not painful in a normal size room.
Have the bass and mid up full, and the treble at least half. On your guitar, use the middle pick up position (if your guitar has more than one pick up) and play for 10-15 minutes using lots of open chords, and chunky percussive playing. This will get the cone moving, and should excite all the cone modes and get everything to settle in nicely. The speaker will continue to mature over the years, but this will get it 95% of the way to tonal perfection in the shortest time."

Already tried that. I think it might have improved the sound and loosened up just a tad, but just very barely. Either that, or it loosened up my eardrums lol. I cranked it.

I'm also going to try and switch the V30's with my significantly broken in gt-75's in the Marshall just to see. At the moment, the difference between the cabs is so huge that I doubt I'll need an immediate A/B comparison to tell if it worked or not.

If it does, I'll just try some different speaker configurations or blast some Ying Yang Twins through the V30's and run for cover outta da room. uke:

 

[::XeS::]

Can you post some clips? Also a comparison between the orange and the marshall could be usefull

 

[Trevoire520]

You will generally perceive alot more lows and highs from the Marshall cab, as the T75 is a more scooped sounding speaker. And it can take a while to adjust and learn to dial your amp in to the new cab. The settings you use with your marshall will not work with your orange at all. You'll need to scoop your mids more and give it more lows and highs to compensate for the fact that the V30 is a more mid heavy speaker.

Personally I've always found the marshall cab's can be pretty fizzy in the highs and boomy in the lows, whereas the orange has this very thick, tight low end and a great midrange. This hi-fi sound of the marshall tends to be preferred by most when sitting in the room with the cab, but doesn't translate to a good mic'd up sound.

From what you're saying I'm honestly wondering if you're running too much lows in your rig anyway? the Orange has plenty of low end, and if you're struggling to get enough from it then you've probably got a tone that doesn't exactly leave much room for a bass guitar.

You'll probably find that if you mic both up the orange will be alot easier to work with in the mix.

 

[AboutBlank]

I own the PPC212 and this thing is pretty dull sounding.
I could'nt get rid of the dullness, even if presence and treble are cranked. I love the cab, but for metal stuff tones I prefer other cabs.

 

[xFkx]

I hate the 1960, thus said, i'm quite ambivalent about the orange as well.

Acctualy I hate all amps and cabs :Spin:

 

[drew_drummer]

Orange cabs are a bit too boomy for my liking.