Osama bin laden dead

[Edazer]

I understand people would find other reasons to commit terrorist acts if not religion, and war wouldn't be abolished completely.

I also understand there are "good" religious people. My best friend is a Christian. Smartest Mexican I've ever met. But he's too weak-minded and/or afraid to accept non-existence so he has...faith. We've debated countless nights and come to the final conclusion that for our friendship to work, we have to agree on a stale-mate and not discuss the topic at all.

Still, a world without religion would be a world in which man kind found some true progression. A world without religion is a world worth dying for. At the risk of sounding arrogant, that last sentence I said is pretty quote worthy.

I mean... I just think that you're just as close-minded on the subject as the people whose beliefs you detest... I am an agnostic/deist myself, but I don't fault people, or call them weak for believing what they will.. Yeah, some don't or are unable to face the world without some thought of an afterlife, or are too afraid of there being no greater (known) existence other than ourselves. Still, to just say they're stupid or weak for believing in what they wish to believe... I just don't think it's very fair.

To preempt (in case this was a rebuttal you may've been thinking of), many people who believe as you do, say that they feel this way because the opposing side doesn't respect THEIR beliefs... That the opposing damns them to hell or considers them immoral or whatever because they don't believe in a religion. My response to these people who use this excuse is usually the same.

"Two wrongs don't make a right... Just because the opposing side does not respect your beliefs does not mean one should completely write off these people's beliefs."

I respect people's beliefs even when they do not respect mine... I just believe it is the just thing to do. (Not that I'm better than anyone, I usually believe quite the opposite)

My point is, if an "at-best" average person like myself can be this understanding and accepting, most people definitely have it in them as well...

 

[replicated]

^Well put. Maybe he will spare his mom's life now.

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

All I can do is disagree. I never shove my atheism down anyones throat, but I have Christianity shoved down mine on a daily basis. I haven't even debated a Christian in years.

I want religion gone not just so we could have less violence. I want it gone so we can be a step closer to finding real truths. By leaving it alone and letting people play make believe, the world isn't becoming a better place for you and I.

Granted, I'm probably one of the dumbest atheist out there. But there are surely others who would be able to accomplish more without this restriction. Without government tax cuts going to churches. Without people doing shitty things and falling back on religion to justify themselves.

I just think in order to make this world a better place, in the very distant future when the idea is more conceivable, we need an organized, bloody, violent attack on religion as a whole. That's just my worthless opinion. That long after we're dead, there will be war between atheist and religion. That's a war I'd fight in. That's a cause I'd die for.

It's hard not to contradict myself when the closest people I love follow Christ. But I'm thinking beyond my petty, worthless, waste of a life right now.

 

[replicated]

I am an agnostic. But Christians have been nothing good to me. When I grew up in absolute poverty, it was the churches that gave us food without trying to convert me or force me to go to church. They donated presents for Christmas because my mother spent all her money on drugs. You see a lot of bad with Christianity, but I see the bad and good as well. It was their kindness has helped me, and I respect that those I met practiced the belief of loving others and never expecting anything in return. There's nothing wrong with that, even if their God doesn't exist, at least the people I met made a positive impact on peoples' lives.

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

That's great. And my Christian friends have helped me when I was between a rock and a hard place.

The question is, would some of these people still do these things without being told they are the right thing to do? I take in stray animals because of the love in my heart, not because the bible says to help those less fortunate.

But this whole discussion is pointless, isn't it, my friend? Anything I hope for regarding the subject could never happen in our life times.

 

[replicated]

What would a person's reason for doing good matter? To question a charitable motive would be looking a gift horse in the mouth.

And here's something to consider. Assuming that a person only did good because the Bible told them to do good, isn't it good that they have that moral compass to do good, whereas without that compass (the bible) they may otherwise be a malicious self-serving person?

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

Then I would say that person was inherently ill-intentioned to begin with. The world might be a slightly worse place because they didn't have those moral guidelines, but it would make it easier for society to see who is truly good of heart.

At the same time, you still have the "born again's" who live with no guilt in their hearts for the murders, rapes, and other barbaric acts they've committed, because they were "saved". Those people deserve guilt. They deserve to live with that guilt for the rest of their lives.

I can't deny you make good points. I'm not completely disagreeing. And I apologize for bringing up the whole religion thing. I was just thinking it was about a year ago this month my father on his death bed, accepted Christ. For that reason, he forever lost my respect. Not that he did much to deserve it in the first place, but it was he that always pointed out religion was the last refuge of the scoundrel.

And he isn't the reason I'm atheist or anything. That happened when he was far, far away. If I was atheist because he was, I'd be no better than a Christian.

 

[Enemy242]

I want religion gone not just so we could have less violence. I want it gone so we can be a step closer to finding real truths. By leaving it alone and letting people play make believe, the world isn't becoming a better place for you and I.

I just think in order to make this world a better place, in the very distant future when the idea is more conceivable, we need an organized, bloody, violent attack on religion as a whole. That's just my worthless opinion. That long after we're dead, there will be war between atheist and religion. That's a war I'd fight in. That's a cause I'd die for.

sounds like a generic summer movie idea haha, I can imagine the epic laser fights and cross-bows (hurhurdur) already

 

[El Stormo]

All I can do is disagree. I never shove my atheism down anyones throat

But you do wanna end the life of every non-atheist on the planet?

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

If I could suddenly just have them all vanish like the Dwemer, yes. This is assuming I don't get to pick and choose, and it's a theoretical choice of all or none.

Purely theoretical. I'm not saying lets go kill every religious person. Just an imaginary scenario where I had the choice of pressing a button and having religious people all dissapear.

 

[El Stormo]

John, you're a cool guy, but sometimes you really sell a lot of crap.

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

Thanks, you're an awesome guy yourself.

For what it's worth, I live in the southern United States. I haven't been to Europe but I imagine my day to day experience with religion is much different than yours. Anyway, I was just drinking and presenting an imaginary scenario, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously at all and I don't want to derail a thread about politics.

 

[Karmic]

non-atheists and argonians

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

I just laughed very hard.

I guess I am pretty absurd.

 

[replicated]

'twas a fun drunken debate.

 

[WhiteBeastofWotan]

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local...sec_of_state_hillary_clinton_out_of_bin_.html


loooooooooooooooooooooooooool

 

[Shpongled]

I just think... we need an organized, bloody, violent attack on religion as a whole. That's just my worthless opinion.

I'm not saying lets go kill every religious person. Just an imaginary scenario where I had the choice of pressing a button and having religious people all dissapear.

??

Dude, do you even think about this stuff before your fingers get going on the keyboard?

Also, if you had that ability, that means my whole family would be gone, and that means I would have to come for you. I'm sure there are many others out there that feel the same way, probably lots of them being atheists, so it's good that you'd be willing to die for that.

 

[Shpongled]

Of course only now do i see where you said nothing was serious. Figures.

 

[replicated]

Hey Kev, have you tried that Pliny and the canned IPA's? I'm curious to know if they were good or not. Especially the Pliny since every bottled Pliny I've had has been far from how good it is on tap.

 

[Shpongled]

Yeah I have! The Pliny was as sexcellent as it could possibly be! I know that beers are generally not as good when bottled compared to on tap, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with this Pliny. Of course, it was bottled only a week prior so it was still really fresh.

The cans were also good. It's an interesting sensation to drink a delicious beer from a can, not something I am used to. This will become a camping tradition instantly! I drnak the first one right out of the can, and then poured the second one into my cup. I couldn't notice any signs in the taste that it had come from a can and not a bottle. I'm sold on canned craft beers!!