Pan or/and time-of-arrival stereophony for drum samples

[Kohugaly]

Recently I started to care more about Drum sampling couse my band doesn't have drummer. The only thing that annoys me is that the stereo sounds a bit artificial when I use only pan ...so i tried to simulate time-arrival stereo by delay. eg. for sounds panned a bit left I delayed right channel within 2milisecond range. I also made an excel table to calculate the delay according to angle and ear distance. I know this makes drums mono uncompatible so does this have any negative impact on the mix? I also tried this on not-hard-panned guitars and it maked them sound more naturaly spread in stereo.
I've never heard of anyone who uses this on drum samples, so im asking you all. What do you think about it? why to use it? why not?

 

[RedDog]

Haas effect ruins drums. Buy superior and aptrigga, play with that.

You're getting that artificial sound because it's the exact same waveform played through separate speakers at different time intervals. al a "haas".
The stereo effect you want comes from at least 3 different mics at different angles, spread across the stereo field. and they all record different waveforms with phase differences and other temporal characteristics not obtainable by single samples.

Point being, if you're going to fake drums, use proper faking-it techniques. Then we can help you.

Also, I applaud you for thinking about your samples on a time-of-arrival basis. Now you're thinking. But before I applaud too much... you don't.... Hard-pan guitars....?

 

[Kohugaly]

But before I applaud too much... you don't.... Hard-pan guitars....?

I do hard-pan guitars... in the mix I was talking about there were double layered ritm guitars hard-panned L&R and lead guitar 50% left with 0.16ms delayed right channel to simulate the time-of-arrival stereo (50%pan & 0.16ms dealy should simulate 30% angle - works for me on headphones). And the same with harmonics of lead guitar panned right.

 

[RedDog]

In headphones, maybe. The delaying in your stereo field could cause comb filtering in wider fields such as a car. You want your mix to be compatible on all systems, not just your headphones.

 

[Kohugaly]

In headphones, maybe. The delaying in your stereo field could cause comb filtering in wider fields such as a car. You want your mix to be compatible on all systems, not just your headphones.

true.... and make also phase cancel some freqiencies when listenig through monosystem like mobile phone.... I think i'll make more versions with and without it in my next mix and try it on different systems..,, to see what it does... I'll let you know if you want.

 

[RedDog]

Now you're thinking. Get on it!

 

[Kohugaly]

Now you're thinking. Get on it!

I was thinking all the time... I would made those compare mixes anyway... all I wanted is to ask someone skilled what should I expect.

Anyway ..off topic... I repaired my old mic today, so I'm starting to experiment with mic placement tomorrow. You showed me my lack of mic placement and phase knowledge. Good thing before starting to work on some serious stuff next friday.

 

[Kohugaly]

I've played with the haas effect in its many ranges and with pan and here are my conclusions:
Haas effect (delaying one channel few miliseconds) within ranges 0,0 - 0,6ms simulates delay between human ears but works good only on standalone sounds - it looses its purse in the mix. Combined with pan sounds weird.
Haas effect over 5ms makes sounds sound panned also in mix but results intolerable comb filtering.
standalone pan works best in the mix but sounds unnatural when soloed.

If anyone cares I can post examples

 

[RedDog]

Like I said though, Haas only simulates dimension, which is why it's pretty cool as an effect, not a tried and true technique to getting a full sound.

 

[Kohugaly]

It was a little surprise to me anyway.
funny how brain fools us. with delay 0,4ms on left you could clearly hear the sound coming from right at about 50 degree angle. but only when soloed....(tested on hi-hat sample) after i putted it the guitars or any other instrument the stereo-imaginary effect was all lost because brain filtered it out.. the hi-hat sounded simply mono because there were other stereophonicly more interesting elements. That's at least the way I'm interpreting it.