Pantera fans??

[zabu of nΩd]

It depends, however, when it comes to black metal of that vein, I would say it's a different animal. While I may highly disagree with many viewpoints of what bands like that present, I can listen without my IQ dropping if I choose to listen, firstly because the musical aesthetic just presents itself as much more serious than groove-southern-metal-stomp-whatever, and secondly because although many viewpoints like that are either uninformed, one-dimensional, or for shock value, that still isn't nearly the same as out and out being a dimbulb, which is most of the Pantera vibe for me both lyrically and musically.

And yeah, I could say there is merit there, obviously, nobody can realistically say there are many bands with absolutely no redeeming factors, but little things like the guitarwork in 'Floods' or the random intelligent sounding line Phil may tend to throw in with the rest of the dregs does not greatness make, no?

I still don't think their music has to be intelligent (even though I really wouldn't categorise black metal as "intelligent" just because it sounds serious) to be good. There's a lot of stuff out there that's meant to be a fun, non-serious listen - examples being punk and hard rock. I personally don't see any reason to use seriousness as a measuring stick for a good band, although I suspect that many people here do.

As to how good their songwriting is, I've acknowledged that it's not stellar, and they're very much a hit-and-miss band, but I think if you're open to the genre they're definitely worth a listen. Not sure what else I could say about them besides that.

 

[Orion Crystal Ice]

I still don't think their music has to be intelligent (even though I really wouldn't categorise most black metal that way, regardless of how 'serious' it sounds) to be good. There's a lot of stuff out there that's meant to be a fun, non-serious listen - especially punk and hard rock. I personally don't see any reason to use seriousness as a measuring stick for a good band, although I suspect that many people here do.

As to how good their songwriting is, I've acknowledged that it's not stellar, and they're very much a hit-and-miss band, but I think if you're open to the genre they're definitely worth a listen. Not sure what else I could say about them besides that.

Well, Grave Digger isn't always necessarily 'intelligent' too much at all but that's one of my favorite bands...that band is a ton of fun...in fact a lot of power metal and thrash as well at times, does that very well without having that overwhelming stench of modern American doldrums...and tackling the issue of seriousness, I find it in error that there has to always be a juxtapose between fun-serious and that the former must contain drunken stupidity and other things that can easily make one a loser. It's definitely not that cut and dry an issue. I think Rhapsody is pretty darn fun also, and at the same time I do recieve that from their music, in ways I think are cool and I understand. I just really don't see the tough-southern-guy-who-is-always-smoking-weed thing to be objectively cool or fun at all. It just makes me facepalm into my brain stem.

 

[mutantllama]

I must add that Down - NOLA kills everything Pantera have ever written. Thats the truth right there.

Even though NOLA is a fucking killer album, it still doesn't stand up to Cowboys From Hell.

 

[Dak]

No

.

 

[ShredHeadJHJ]

Pretty much.
Phil Anselmo is clearly a gigantic fucking idiot. Pantera's fan base is primarily composed of rednecks. This doesn't mean that their music is trash. A lot of it is, but there's some good stuff there and it's as stupid to make obnoxious insults as it is to go the other extreme.

Man, I hear so much about Pantera fans being rednecks... While I hear this shit enough that I don't doubt it, I don't recall ever meeting a Pantera fan who was a redneck.

Phil may be a complete fucking idiot, but he's got a great fucking voice as well. At least on everything he did NOLA and earlier, anyway.

I think as a person Phil sucks. He's a piece of dog shit. I'm also not very big on his singing either, save for maybe only a couple of songs. Actually, his vocals borderline complete suckage if it weren't for those few songs.

@ Omni, i think it really depends on how long you've been listening to metal to begin with. For a person that just recently got into metal and strictly likes brutaldeath/BM they will probably dismiss Pantera because they are not heavy enough etc.

Lotsa people on this board like that.

Basically, their music was manly as fuck.

Pantera were like modern-day pirates.

Lawlz

 

[no country for old wainds]

Okay, but I would say the attitude of a band is mostly irrelevant to their musical quality.

music is attitude

I could just as soon call a lot of black metal bands bad because their attitude of misanthropy and anti-Christianity is retarded, but then I would be missing the point of black metal, wouldn't I?

only because you're over-simplifying those attitudes

Sounds like it's just not a genre you're interested in. Granted, I don't think they excelled at writing good riffs, but as far as the genre goes they're pretty much top of the line.

what genre is this exactly? exhorder-played-by-drunk-talentless-retards metal?

 

[mutantllama]

Man, Pantera sure knows how to have fun.

 

[Belligerent]

For those of you who have never seen their homevideos.
Goddamn those bastards could drink!

 

[whiskey funeral]

NOLA rules. I have to agree with Belligerent to an extent on this.

Like I said, I don't even listen to Pantera at all these days but their home videos are classic and still make me LOL.

 

[Belligerent]

They are hilarious. I especially love when Kirk Weinstein from Crowbar dresses up like the Incredible Hulk w/ his face green and all and destroys bathroom stalls etc. I wish i could have partied with those dudes.

 

[waif]

@Seed, By watching the Pantera Home Videos (Watch It Go, Vulgar Videos), you could see how much these guys lived it up and made some decent albums in the meantime.

I watched that. I facepalmed the whole way through. Just a bunch of rednecks breaking shit, drinking, and the occasional live clip of Pantera getting hammered onstage. I have utterly no respect for them as human beings. I really dug the live cover of Firehouse with Skid Row, though. That was pretty entertaining.

 

[CF87]

Like King Drunkard said... get over yourselves.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

music is attitude

To some extent, yes - and Pantera have plenty. My point wasn't about what sort of attitude is behind the music - it's about how well the attitude is conveyed.

only because you're over-simplifying those attitudes

No, because there's no "correct" attitude for music to have. If you really believe that, you're delusional.

what genre is this exactly? exhorder-played-by-drunk-talentless-retards metal?

They're clearly not talentless. And how drunk or "retarded" they are, in life or their music, has no bearing on the quality of their music. The Ramones were pretty retarded as well, but they also had a brilliant approach to music. Again, if you think a band has to come across as mature in order to be good, you're absolutely missing the point of tons of music.

 

[The Ozzman]

Pantera is just fun music.

 

[no country for old wainds]

No, because there's no "correct" attitude for music to have. If you really believe that, you're delusional.

They're clearly not talentless. And how drunk or "retarded" they are, in life or their music, has no bearing on the quality of their music. The Ramones were pretty retarded as well, but they also had a brilliant approach to music. Again, if you think a band has to come across as mature in order to be good, you're absolutely missing the point of tons of music.

i don't judge music purely in terms of how well it conveys an attitude because if i did i'd hail britney spears as a fantastic artist for perfectly conveying mindless consumerist teenage stupidity. i think pantera suck because their music is an extension of a godawful mindset. i am not missing the point, you act like everyone should like anything that's done well. i could rape your mother really fucking well but i bet you wouldn't like that.

 

[seedofvengeance]

i could rape your mother really fucking well but i bet you wouldn't like that.

But he would appreciate the talent displayed in doing so.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

Down is pretty meh if you ask me. Superjoint Ritual is a little better. Down is too middle of the road. Phil is my favorite part of Pantera but he'll never do anything half as good as what he did in Pantera with Dime.

As for Pantera not being serious music... believe what you want. But don't fall for your own ego and believe that your view of it is the only valid one. The punk community took Venom as hilarious camp, akin to Spinal Tap. Black metallers took Venom as dead serious and they started killing people. Not even the artist's personal perspective on it is the deciding factor for what the music is and becomes to the listeners. There's a large world outside of that, because music is very personal for the listeners.

For Me? No, Pantera is not just fun music. They're every bit as serious as Slayer or Radiohead. Or at least I take Slayer seriously, I don't know who on here does or does not. But just because you don't appreciate or relate to Pantera's messages doesn't mean that the music isn't serious or that it's not putting forward a "valid" perspective; however valid you consider any lyricist's perspective. Knowing what we do about Phil Anselmo, surely he's either being dead serious with his lyrics or he's putting up a well-kept public persona, and if he's doing the latter then most likely that would be for the sake of furthering the agenda of his lyrics. And no matter how funny or unworthy of attention anyone on here considers Phil's perspective, fans of black metal ideology surely can't object to his perspective on Christianity, and fans of bands like Priest and early Metallica surely can't fault him for his pro-Metal ideology. And just remember how many people there are out there who consider every band we on here respect and adore to be entirely laughable, stupid and childish.

 

[seedofvengeance]

Pantera's lyrics are pretty terrible if they're serious. This coming from a huge Pantera fan.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Down is the only decent thing Phil Anselmo did imo.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

Pantera's lyrics are pretty terrible if they're serious. This coming from a huge Pantera fan.

What do you consider good lyrics?

Personally, I respect straight-forward perspectives more than dime-a-dozen poeticizing, and I consider topics like self-assurance, interpersonal mind games, and life priorities to be some of the best and most important topics. So it makes sense that I would find Phil's lyrics to be quite excellent.

To me the measuring stick here would be Immortal Technique. He's another one of my all-time favorite lyricists, only this time some people agree with me. Technique is considered an intelligent, consequential rapper. But anyone who thinks Phil is overboard will surely find Technique unbarable. Even Good Friends and a Bottle of Pills never comes near the tough-guy things Immortal Technique says in the easy majority of his songs. And on top of that, Tech slips in tinfoil hat conspiracy theories. Phil and Immortal Technique are preaching some of the same things in very similar ways; using overt exclamation to promote self-assurance, respect, standing up for one's self against a subversive society, and being skeptical of the status quo.

As a guy who spent a fair part of his youth listening to nothing but Classic Rock -- literally refusing to hear anything post-1980 other than some stuff by artists like Tom Petty and Neil Young, I can't say I find Pantera's music to be unserious just because it involves a groove. I don't, for example, consider there to be anything unserious about a band like Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac or The Jimi Hendrix Experience. That was the most serious music of the time. And considering that Sabbath, Metallica and Slayer are probably Pantera's biggest inspirations, I wouldn't consider their grooves to be unserious. (I included Slayer for their great breakdowns which Pantera also does).