Pedophilia

[Scott W]

Im curious what everyone thinks about pedophilia. I mean, I hope we can all admit it is a thoroughly disgusting act, and traumatic for any child that has to go through it. Im more interested in what people think as far as where it comes from, and what to do about it.

Is this biologically based? If so, how? Genetics? Hormone-Brain interaction? If its biology, how do we prevent it? Do we have to wait until someone reveals themselves, and then we place them on probation, and a sex offender list?

Is this sociologically based? Again, what is the cause? Abuse? Neglect? If its societal, how do we prevent it?

Are pedophiles the victim of a fucked up brain telling them to want things they shouldnt? And if so, if they are treated with a drug program (ive heard that estrogen has helped in some cases) can they be functioning members of society? Or are all pedophiles sociopathic and get off on the control issue involved with children? If they are, what needs to be done to protect society from them?

Im curious because today I watched the South Park episode about NAMBLA (The North American Man-Boy Love Association for the european members) which is a hilarious episode. However, outside of the comedic possibilities, it seems to be a growing problem, hell the local morning radio show on the metal station keeps a tally of coaches who mess around with the young players on their teams from around the country. I actually dont know anything about any research into a biological cause for it (and I cant even begin to imagine how it could stick around evolutionarily speaking). Im really not sure where I stand...Id really like to see some evidence to either support or reject a biological component before I decide.

 

[tr_ofdallas]

first I think there's a hell of a lot more pedophiles than what anyone really knows about because there are a lot of friends of mine where the so-called "child" actually enjoys the experience of having an older person "teaching" them how to have sex and me having so many friends that were younger than me describing how great it was to have someone "older" "teaching" them sex is something that reminds me of the book "shelters of stone" (I can't remember the name of the author) where it gives a description of a society where each virgin has his/her first sexual experience with a sexual teacher that teaches them how to have sex where the men are taught how to make the woman reach orgasm before the he pulls his dick out of his pants and the women are taught how to make a blowjob feel a hundred times better than fucking a pussy but the American people think of pedophiles as evil partially because we really just don't want to admit that a sex drive kicks in at 8, not 18 so if the kid really doesn't have a sex drive then I think that instead of calling it a "child molestation" or "statutory rape" we should call it what it really is "Rape" if there's an age gap when something sexual happens and the younger person really doesn't have a sex drive or if it really is traumatic for the younger person then the crime should be processed the same as if a 20-year old physically rapes a frail 90 year-old and yes there are people who will tell you that there really is a genetic component to it and there's this woman (I can't remember her name) that says the gene(s) that makes guys become pedophiles still exists because pedophiles have higher sperm count/stronger sperm than normal and that they are devious enough to sub-conciously purpousfully impregnate women so that no one will no they are pedophiles and there's been documentation showing that some of them don't even consiously become pedophiles untill after they have kids and they become sexually attracted to their kids's friends but some of them never have any kind of sexually relationships with adults because they are sexually repulsed by (instead of sexually atrracted to) the gender identification pheromones that kick-in at puberty to identify you as being cappable of reproducing (totaly seperate from the pheromones that are excreted from the skin when a person gets horny) so for some of them it ISN'T all about the sociopathic needing to have control thing i think its at least partially genetic because if it was totally societal than we would have noticed the comanality by now: there would be a type of childhood trauma that they all had in common
but I think it's also partly societal because if it was totally genetic we would have been able to isolate those people with the pedophile genes and we would have exterminated them by now i'm not comepletely sure that the estrogen would work with pedophiles because i've heard alot of stories about how the guys that rape adults would get their testicles removed and then go out and rape more women with Pepsi bottles the south park episode was hillarious but i think maybe it was a referece to some of those "ancient" societies where everybody would loose their virginity at 13

 

[tr_ofdallas]

Dragon's right
I just had "diarrhea of the mouth"

 

[Akirahito]

To you above me. Well, isn't that nice. I never thought I would see the day when someone besides an actual pedophile would condone it.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

To you above me. Well, isn't that nice. I never thought I would see the day when someone besides an actual pedophile would condone it.

I'm not totally convinced she's flat-out condoning it
I think she's just trying to say that people develop sex drives younger than what the law aknowleges and that a child molestation should be treated the same as person raping an adult

 

[Kenneth R.]

To you above me. Well, isn't that nice. I never thought I would see the day when someone besides an actual pedophile would condone it.

I agree.

Physically there may be hormones at those ages, but intellectually, the mind is not ready yet for the consequences and implications of such actions. They just don't fully comprehend what it means to have sex, or all the problems that could potentially result. Therefore, I find it criminal to condone such acts because the perpetrator is misleading an innocent child. Of course I don't believe one MUST be 18, or 20, or whatever age the law sets. But the reason those laws exist is because at that age, roughly +- 3 years, the mind is capable of understanding these things and can make an intelligent decision.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I agree.

Physically there may be hormones at those ages, but intellectually, the mind is not ready yet for the consequences and implications of such actions. They just don't fully comprehend what it means to have sex, or all the problems that could potentially result. Therefore, I find it criminal to condone such acts because the perpetrator is misleading an innocent child. Of course I don't believe one MUST be 18, or 20, or whatever age the law sets. But the reason those laws exist is because at that age, roughly +- 3 years, the mind is capable of understanding these things and can make an intelligent decision.

Yes I take that view also. Children don't really know what they want. They are very suggestible, easily manipulated so there has to be an age set for doing things that can not only wreak their own lives, but make society intollerable for other people who don't want to actually live in a sewer. It is hard enough at the moment for a judge to decide if someone has been raped or if it was consensual. If they had to deal with children it would be impossible to get a sensible verdict.

One fact about paedophiles is that they cannot be rehabilitated because the urge will always be there. They are sometimes supervised and banned from contact with kids. This would suggest a biological factor - since therepy never works. They are also sociopaths as they are very cunning, deceptive and devious in how they get what they want.
I advocate the death penalty for paedophiles, except in cases that are more borderline, such as a man being seduced by an underage girl who looked older. Also if a teenage boy has sex with an older woman and it is consensual it isn't so bad, although if she is a teacher she should just lose her job. There should be a punishment, as a deterant in such cases, but that doesn't really do much harm.

 

[derek]

I agree.

Physically there may be hormones at those ages, but intellectually, the mind is not ready yet for the consequences and implications of such actions. They just don't fully comprehend what it means to have sex, or all the problems that could potentially result. Therefore, I find it criminal to condone such acts because the perpetrator is misleading an innocent child. Of course I don't believe one MUST be 18, or 20, or whatever age the law sets. But the reason those laws exist is because at that age, roughly +- 3 years, the mind is capable of understanding these things and can make an intelligent decision.

I agree.

In Ancient Cultures, the taking of a young boy as a sexual companion by an older, experienced man was quite the norm. However, this was entirely commonplace, so there was no trauma involved, per se. Today, such an act is socially forbidden, and thus doing so can traumatise the child/family to such a large extent it is quite unfathomable. In turn this drives paedophiles to become predatory in their search for a sexual companion - and THAT area is what sickens me the most.

My studies of ancient cultures has led me to believe the intrinsic act of sex with a child is not evil without some social context, and given our current social context, paedophilia is outright abhorrent.

 

[Disgustipated]

I agree.

Physically there may be hormones at those ages, but intellectually, the mind is not ready yet for the consequences and implications of such actions. They just don't fully comprehend what it means to have sex, or all the problems that could potentially result. Therefore, I find it criminal to condone such acts because the perpetrator is misleading an innocent child. Of course I don't believe one MUST be 18, or 20, or whatever age the law sets. But the reason those laws exist is because at that age, roughly +- 3 years, the mind is capable of understanding these things and can make an intelligent decision.

I agree.

In Ancient Cultures, the taking of a young boy as a sexual companion by an older, experienced man was quite the norm. However, this was entirely commonplace, so there was no trauma involved, per se. Today, such an act is socially forbidden, and thus doing so can traumatise the child/family to such a large extent it is quite unfathomable. In turn this drives paedophiles to become predatory in their search for a sexual companion - and THAT area is what sickens me the most.

My studies of ancient cultures has led me to believe the intrinsic act of sex with a child is not evil without some social context, and given our current social context, paedophilia is outright abhorrent.

I agree.

It's interesting to consider the things that throughout time have become unacceptable, though. Swaying mildly off topic, if not for intellectual evolution, we'd be able to walk around the streets naked. Damn intellectual evolution, damn it to hell.

But on topic, we Westernised countries in a way condone paedophilia by having it socially customary that woman shave areas such as under arms and legs. Other cultures find this disgusting as the woman is made to appear younger, thus replicating paedophilia.

Having someone close to me who has been sexually abused at a young age, I know just how sickening the act is. This girl was 1) afriad to tell anyone and 2) not sure that she needed to tell anyone because she wasn't sure what was happening. And as Ken said, it's the lack of awareness and comprehension of just what's happening which sickens me the most.

 

[tr_ofdallas]

Also if a teenage boy has sex with an older woman and it is consensual it isn't so bad, although if she is a teacher she should just lose her job.

are you refering to the American case where an "underage" boy inpregnated his teacher and she spent 10 years in prison for it? she didn't get out till 2 or 3 years ago and she can't legally interact with her kid till the kid becomes a "legal adult" cuz she's labeled as a "pedophile" that's fucked up all to hell

 

[Kenneth R.]

@ -vintersorg-: Precisely. The reason it was "ok" before was that in that social context, it was the norm, just as an age of 15-18ish is "acceptable" in our current society.

to be perfectly open and honest, i was 17, but this was consensual and the other was also 17. I don't see anything wrong with this, but who knows if in the future our social climate will raise the age even further, probably due to the increasing immaturity of our educational system.

 

[tr_ofdallas]

Of course I don't believe one MUST be 18, or 20, or whatever age the law sets. But the reason those laws exist is because at that age, roughly +- 3 years, the mind is capable of understanding these things and can make an intelligent decision.

this is a horrifically inacurate generalization different people develop psychologically at vastly different speeds there are 13 year-old girls that suck dick instead of doing the act that produces children because they understand enough to be suductively/maliciously getting money/drugs and/or "favors" from "people with power" but on the otherside of that is the girls that suck dick or "experiment with women" instead of doing intercourse because they are scared to death of getting pregnant because they are observant enough to notice how immature they are and that there's no way in hell they are going to be able to be good mothers
BTW the movie the "40 year-old virgin" was based on a true story

 

[Kenneth R.]

btw "sucking dick" can be just as immature. there are still psychological, if not physical, rammifications. can you not see the damage done to a young mind? if not even immediate, then the long term effects?

how in any way can you condone this?

 

[tr_ofdallas]

I agree.

In Ancient Cultures, the taking of a young boy as a sexual companion by an older, experienced man was quite the norm. However, this was entirely commonplace, so there was no trauma involved, per se. Today, such an act is socially forbidden, and thus doing so can traumatise the child/family to such a large extent it is quite unfathomable. In turn this drives paedophiles to become predatory in their search for a sexual companion - and THAT area is what sickens me the most.

My studies of ancient cultures has led me to believe the intrinsic act of sex with a child is not evil without some social context, and given our current social context, paedophilia is outright abhorrent.

almost all of Europe at various times went through periods of having freakishly large numbers of documented "single fathers" due to women dying in childbirth because they weren't physically cappable of living through the experience of going into labor at the age that they were getting pregnant by their HUSBANDS!!! in the Shakespeare play Romeo and Juliet, the big party is Juliet's 14th birthday and there is a part where Juliet's mother is lamenting about Juliet's hesitancy about getting married to the guy Juliet hates and the mother says something that would be in modern American English "you are already older than I was when you were born"

the cultures where the YOUNG BOYS had sex with OLDER MALES are the ones where the males had to wait untill they were in their 30s to marry the females even though the females had to be married at 14
"the intrinsic act of sex with a child is not evil without social context" those were your words, not mine
there's this female (I can't remember her name) that says that for every male that actually fucks someone underage, there's 2 women that are thinking about it, but that men are extremely impulsive whereas women instinctively suppress their impulses to fit into society so if you go to the websites that are similar to www.urbancougars.com and I'd be willing to bet that at least half these women are secretly hoping to find a virgin that they can "teach" and nurture and would feel 100% comfortable with a guy that's "underage" if they knew that nobody would find out

 

[Akirahito]

My son is 6, and I refuse to believe that for one second he has a sex drive, or will in 2 mere years either. Also, I DO NOT believe that he would be THANKFUL if someone showed him the great wide world of sexual experience right now. That's what's pissing me off about that original reply. Kids might have some kind of sexual inklings, but it's not an area for adults to tread on. It's like saying games that little kids play are games adults like to pay. So screw you.

 

[speed]

One of my favorite books, and one of the great masterpieces of literature, is Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov. I suggest everyone read it, or see the Stanely Kubrick movie--which is not the book, but still ok.

I confess, when I see a 15 or 16 year old nymphette, with tight jeans hiding a tight little butt, or a tight shirt straining under the pressure of her pert little breasts, I am full of lust. Im not going to make a move, or anything, in fact, Im probably going to wonder just how old this girl is, but, theres no way I can deny a raw physical attraction. I dont see anything wrong with it. These girls are in the blossom of their beauty, and not to be at least attracted to them, I would consider a bit odd. Of course, this doesnt mean I am going to do anything at all other than acknowledge this beauty.

In addition, as I have been a substitute teacher, and a manager in a grocery store, these nymphettes will flirt up a storm to get out of trouble, get a higher grade, go home early etc. I can see why so many teachers and persons that interact with such girls get in trouble. I guess they gave into their temptations.

 

[Scott W]

Interesting stuff. I see alot of discussion of young teens, like 15, 16, and 17, and that wasnt really what I meant. Im 22 and my girlfriend is 18, we have been together 2 years, you do the math. I was more interested in pedophilia involving very young children that have no business doing anything sexual, like pre-teens, and little boys. I think that's my fault though for using the example of the high incidence of school sport coaches and their students.

Im more than willing to agree that the legal age of consent is ridiculous. Though, my gf and I waited awhile for having actual intercourse.

 

[tr_ofdallas]

btw "sucking dick" can be just as immature. there are still psychological, if not physical, rammifications. can you not see the damage done to a young mind? if not even immediate, then the long term effects?

how in any way can you condone this?

okay what about the huge number of women that can only reach orgasm durring anal? would you deny them the pleasure of orgasm if they are doing anal instead of intercourse because they are petrified of pregnancy? should chronalogical age be a consideration if she's one of those women that are capable of reaching orgasm as the result of the sensation a male's semen splashing onto her breasts?
what if she's one of those Dallas girls that gets a legitimately made texas state ID with fake info on it, uses that fake ID to get into a singles bar, snags a guy that's actually old enough to drink, gets dicked passes out from orgasmic bliss, wakes up and has a comeplete stranger arested for "statutory rape"? what then? is she still a child, psychologically then?
this scenario isn't hypothetical it happens in every goddamm singles bar in all of America every single fucking night
i know this because these are girls that used to hang out with Dragon there are 7 seperate men currently in prison for having sex with the girl that wanted Dragon to impregnate her and that's not even including the men that didn't go to prison cuz they did time in county or got probation!!!

 

[tr_ofdallas]

Interesting stuff. I see alot of discussion of young teens, like 15, 16, and 17, and that wasnt really what I meant. Im 22 and my girlfriend is 18, we have been together 2 years, you do the math. I was more interested in pedophilia involving very young children that have no business doing anything sexual, like pre-teens, and little boys. I think that's my fault though for using the example of the high incidence of school sport coaches and their students.

Im more than willing to agree that the legal age of consent is ridiculous. Though, my gf and I waited awhile for having actual intercourse.

believe it or not I actually agree with you here my point was me objecting to the way the culture handles it I believe that if somebody does something sexual to somebody that doesn't enjoy it, then in should be thought of and handled the same as what you'd call "physical rape" my objection is the concept of "child molestation" being comepletely delineated from "physical rape" if the younger person reached orgasm, then the younger person should be able to be held accountable for maliciously lying to police or the so-called "child's" word being should be able to be taken seriously when the child's word contradicts the parents' word when the parents are too far out to lunch to admit to themselves that their kid's got a sex drive

 

[Kenneth R.]

tr ofdallas i think you've got some problems, honestly. and I'll just ignore your replies from now on as they make absolutely NO sense at all. the use of profanity as well indicates that you are very emotional about this issue and your replies are less than philosophical.

further, you are now dismissing the topic and discussing methods of sex. the topic at hand is sex with children, which i find criminal in that as i have already stated, the child's mind is not developed enough to comprehend fully what the implications are. if you disagree with this, try to teach an average 8 year old Calculus, or Accounting, or European history. they may understand the basic concept (just as they may understand sex feels good and how to do it) but they in no way can grasp the full picture.

to support such actions is to support the raping of these youngsters, not only physically, but MENTALLY.