Please Sign My Petition

[skeptik]

The vast majority of everything that we learn in almost every subject is not necessary for the vast majority of people. Those who are most interested in their education are more likely to study out of desire than necessity. Therefore it's a ridiculous question to ask whether something is a necessity or a desire. I make take a course on Hellenistic Greece out of desire, but for one aspiring to be a historian of ancient Greece, wouldn't it be a necessity?

Calculus is not necessary in my everyday life, nor in my prospective field of professional life.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

^ @ Anath Yeah, sure, but you can say that about any field of education. So what are you actually saying?

Are you telling me there is no difference between a Philosophy Major and a Business Major when it comes to the economy?

Either way, when it comes to majority use, I guarantee the percentages are with Algebra.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

The vast majority of everything that we learn in almost every subject is not necessary for the vast majority of people. Those who are most interested in their education are more likely to study out of desire than necessity. Therefore it's a ridiculous question to ask whether something is a necessity or a desire. I make take a course on Hellenistic Greece out of desire, but for one aspiring to be a historian of ancient Greece, wouldn't it be a necessity?

Calculus is not necessary in my everyday life, nor in my prospective field of professional life.

Completely understood, but in your case it is subjective therefore it becomes a necessity as an individual.

But the question here is should it be maintained to the vast majority?

 

[skeptik]

My point was that everything that we could potentially learn will be useless to perhaps the majority of potential 'learners' of that information. Of course it's subjective, that was essentially the idea I was trying to convey. An English major taking a course in some obscure economic field will yield no practical use for this information such that it could be called a 'necessity'. Obviously some things are more likely to be practical than others, I would not dispute that.

But as far as the topic at hand is concerned (the practical value of studying ancient languages I suppose), I haven't claimed to be an expert on that, and in fact don't really have much interest at all in linguistics, but to those who are actually interested in finding an answer, you should do a google search instead of trying to get a fully informed and articulated response from some people who listen to metal. There are people who would know better. But if you're (the general 'you' I hasten to add) just looking for a discussion, I'm afraid I've reached my dead end as far as my knowledge and interest in the subject is concerned.

 

[waif]

Unlike a technical profession, a liberal education takes time to make a positive impact, and with enough investment and patience, it could help remedy our decadent and indolent society.

Zephyrus: Future savior of humanity.
He fights moral decay with the power of Latin.

 

[Vimana]

I signed as Mr. OMICRON SIGMA.

 

[Pessimism]

God forbid any technical environment be of any use to the enlightenment of mankind

Fuck off Chemistry and Biotech majors, you're contributions are useless when compared to the awe that Latin reproduces.

 

[Pessimism]

Seriously though (and yes I need to state this counting I've done nothing but troll this thread), that letter is the epitome of bad writing. Anyone who wants to accomplish something does not write a letter filled with poor rhetoric and bombast statements. Bombast writing can work in certain cases; specific examples include over-exaggeration, which if written properly will be noted as sarcasm. But in the original letter to Mr. Kennedy, as I read through your remarks I couldn't help but feel as if I myself was one of those "anti-intellectual perspectivists", because you came off entirely as a "snobby elitist".

A simple letter would have had so much more impact:

Mr. Kennedy, I am speaking on behalf of my fellow peers and professors who teach and value the classics and the wisdom of the ancient world. The lessons of history, philosophy and the political theories that governed antiquity will be lost to this university should the Latin and Greek programs be cut from the registry. As a declared pupil of these realms of study, I feel I must reiterate the reasoning as to why these subjects were brought into the realms of academia, and why they should stay. Continue rational argument

TLDR: I agree with Einherjer (sans the thought processes not changing statement).




The only pragmatic value I can raise off the top of my head as to why studying a "dead" language is beneficial is that it gives us the ability to potentially discern new nuanced meanings to textual resources (and thus discover new thought processes and understanding of ancient peoples and cultures).



Frankly, I'm glad that the statement for the petition is completely unlike your letter to the president. And although I personally get very tired reading about Latin this & Latin that on this board, I do feel that knowledge should be available for anyone to choose to learn should they wish (in this case via class enrollment). I believe the ending statement however is very weak since it's nothing more than an appeal to tradition, but honestly there isn't much that can be done because of the nature of the major (isn't Latin naturally interdisciplinary?). Perhaps they can make it into a pure specialization within the history department (if they haven't/isn't already).

Either way, hopefully your petition works.

 

[Zephyrus]

Yeah, I was prompted by my History professor to send angry letters to the president (because the president basically insulted and has no respect for the Classicist here), but I'm not stupid enough to put that kind of rhetoric into the petition. It's already established that he's an idiot. It's not so much directed at him as much as the Board of Trustees and state politicians.

And if you want a not-so-pie-in-the-sky argument for the classics, it's that it costs the University very little money to support these programs or to keep a Classicist on the faculty. That and the university may lose its accreditation if these programs are completely cut. Phi Beta Kappa will withdraw its chapter, and fewer people will want to go to Maine for an education, or if they live there already, will want to stay there.


Thanks for the support, guys.

 

[Einherjar86]

For the question, it influences the way we think now if the language we speak is derived from said ancient languages.

It actually hasn't stayed the same. Different languages create different modes of thought.

Here's a link to a book that cites a study verifying this.

http://books.google.com/books?id=B2kST7BcVtwC&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&dq=navajo+children+sorting+language+study&source=bl&ots=xc1oSgd7Sd&sig=5lpSWWfQJbplpo4WcAGfD-wdAXI&hl=en&ei=h_O9TIHWOYSdlgej_-ThBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

The way the brain sorts, observes, communicates, etc. is affected by the language one speaks. Whether or not the approaches to thought Latin and Ancient Greek bring are better than English is another question.

Has there been a study of that sort conducted on ancient Latin? It seems like it would be an interesting and relevant query; of course, the problem arises that there are no longer any native ancient Latin speakers to observe.

 

[Pessimism]

Yeah, I was prompted by my History professor to send angry letters to the president (because the president basically insulted and has no respect for the Classicist here), but I'm not stupid enough to put that kind of rhetoric into the petition. It's already established that he's an idiot. It's not so much directed at him as much as the Board of Trustees and state politicians.

And if you want a not-so-pie-in-the-sky argument for the classics, it's that it costs the University very little money to support these programs or to keep a Classicist on the faculty. That and the university may lose its accreditation if these programs are completely cut. Phi Beta Kappa will withdraw its chapter, and fewer people will want to go to Maine for an education, or if they live there already, will want to stay there.


Thanks for the support, guys.

I would love to hear what the president said originally (we have problems with Yudof being an overpayed imbecile), it's always exciting to hear from such men of stature.

 

[Vimana]

Has there been a study of that sort conducted on ancient Latin? It seems like it would be an interesting and relevant query; of course, the problem arises that there are no longer any native ancient Latin speakers to observe.

No study has been carried on Latin, to my knowledge. Though Latin is not as different from English as Navajo, there are still large differences. However, I haven't found any study that shows that the sorting of information that Latin offers is any better than the sorting that English offers.

I'm not going to claim Latin and Ancient Greek are practical, because for the most part they aren't. I'm learning them for fun and to gain an edge of technical English and other languages of the Indo-European family.

Edit: I'd also take the studies with a grain of salt since the personality of the individual affects their way of sorting information. I'm guessing things can't be precise, and the differences in symbolic thought only show for the most obvious differences between the languages.

Edit 2: I remember hearing about a study done on people literate in Chinese and people literate in English. Apparently someone who reads Chinese will see an entire picture when looking at it, while someone who reads in the Roman alphabet will see the parts that stick out more instead of the picture as a whole.

 

[unknown]

that probably has to do with how they read the language. Written chinese is a logographic system, which means each symbol represents an entire word/idea or syllable (a syllabary). whereas english is phonetic based. words are made of individual sounds that are strung together to form a complete word...made of parts

 

[Vimana]

Yeah, that's probably it. In Chinese they have all of these pieces that make up the characters. There are hundreds or thousands of them and they fit together in all kinds of combinations. There are some that mean different things but only have subtle differences. Like these 妈 鸡

 

[Der Morgenstern]

Also, your 'I hope they cut sports instead' comment was the lulz.