Please Sign My Petition

[Vimana]

The point he was making is that the mechanics of modern languages that map out our thought processes come from ancient ones. For us to gain a larger scope (and possibly even proficiency) in the process of verbal thinking, the language the mechanics and vocabulary come from is a great resource.

 

[Einherjar86]

How do the mechanics of ancient languages influence the way we think now? Languages are symbol systems; they represent meaning for us in the way we use them currently. Our methods of "thinking" can only be represented for us in terms of the language(s) we use.

I would argue that despite all our knowledge about ancient languages, our thinking process hasn't been altered all that much.

 

[WCannibal]

Signed but gave them bullshit info. I.E. under the email address I put buttfucker@aol.com

 

[Srontgorrth]

Just wondering, if Latin and Greek are saved, then what goes? And how many people are part of the Latin and Greek program?

 

[unknown]

Signed. Half of the colleges I want to apply to don't even offer Classics as a major anymore, which sucks ass.

CSULB does! *thumbs up*

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I signded

 

[The Butt]

Signed, I'm the "Name Not Displayed" dude from Canada. :V

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Hey guys. I've started a petition to save the teaching of Latin and Greek at the University of Maine (my school). Please sign it.

You do NOT have to put as much personal information as it looks.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/3/save-the-classics-at-umaine-orono/

Thank you!

What's your reasoning?

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Considering that I'm thoroughly uni-lingual I may not be the most credible source, but studying ancient languages, as the roots of our own modern languages, enlightens our understanding of the words that we use everyday and shows us just what it is that we're actually saying, which provides insights into the very way that we produce and process our own thoughts, given that we think verbally. That's just one reason off the top of my head that validates the preservation of linguistic 'relics', another being having a more intimate understanding of ancient works of wisdom that continue to prove valuable well into the 21st century.

I'm too lazy to sign the petition though.

But is it a necessity or a desire?

 

[Zephyrus]

Just wondering, if Latin and Greek are saved, then what goes? And how many people are part of the Latin and Greek program?

Sports, I hope...

It really pisses me off that people say Latin is useless when sports is even more so.

What's your reasoning?

We the undersigned request that the University of Maine at Orono secure and preserve a commitment to the liberal arts by maintaining full faculty positions in the Classics and courses in Latin and Greek grammar, literature and culture from the introductory to the 400-level.

We believe that any student attending a major, and especially a flagship, university is entitled to reap the full fruits of a liberal education through the study of the classical languages, which are essential to truly understanding the wisdom of the millennia upon which Western Civilization was founded.

We respectfully remind our university administration and state officials that a university by definition is founded upon the liberal arts, and that Latin was the language by which medieval scholars communicated our Greek and Roman heritage to future generations all the way to today.

We the undersigned can attest to the blessings that classical education can confer upon both individuals and society at large. We are grieved to see this eternal flame of ancient wisdom dying out in the state of Maine.

 

[Zephyrus]

I also wrote this to the university president -

Mr. Kennedy,

I am speaking on behalf of my fellow peers and professors who teach and value the classics and the wisdom of the ancient world. The lessons of the history, culture, philosophy and political theory of antiquity are being lost to this university, and Latin and Greek are essential for any serious study of these fundamental millennia of OUR history.

You should know by now that financial necessities are NOT convincing nor sufficient pretexts for inflicting a slow death upon the liberal arts. Lack of enrollment does not imply unimportance of the programs cut or facing extinction. It is the same utilitarianism that car insurance companies use to quantify the value of human life. It is inhuman to put invaluable things like a humanistic education on a balance sheet.

To declare that Latin is not profitable demonstrates a remarkable lack of foresight. Unlike a technical profession, a liberal education takes time to make a positive impact, and with enough investment and patience, it could help remedy our decadent and indolent society. It is not merely academia that suffers from lack of Latin scholars. Is it not the practice of law and medicine that are vital to preserving a just and healthy society? Is it not Latin and Greek texts that are the basis of the prevailing world religion, Christianity? These languages are our most crucial connections to our past, and since history defines us, our present as well.

To argue purely by numbers shows a need for instant gratification, producing only immediate but ephemeral rewards; but nonetheless, with time, the chronic problems recur. Budget cuts are just such a “quick fix” that ultimately fails. That and it produces a society that is anti-intellectual and views us remaining classicists as elitists and snobs. That is the attitude that is prevailing through your administration, and it is ruining the institution that it was supposed to serve.

This is a university. Please consult your medieval history textbook for what that word means.

Good day,

Jeremy Swist

 

[Einherjar86]

You shouldn't have ended with that final sentence.

And that statement that is attached to the petition is just a whole lot of rhetoric; "...which are essential to truly understanding the wisdom of the millennia upon which Western Civilization was founded." Okay, but that's not concrete.

I'd suggest arguing from a bureacratic standpoint. Appeal to the school's desire to have their students go on to better and more prestigious universities that have burgeoning or impressive programs in Classics and ancient languages. Say that new texts are still being discovered that require minds trained in ancient history and languages to study and interpret them, and if your school cuts the funding then that's a whole lot of potential applicants they'll lose as well as a field of study its graduates can never break into.

 

[Zephyrus]

I'd rather not stoop to the bureaucratic level. It's about cultivating values, and that is something beyond simple budgetary mathematics.

 

[skeptik]

But is it a necessity or a desire?

That's a ridiculous question to ask about education.

 

[Einherjar86]

I'd rather not stoop to the bureaucratic level. It's about cultivating values, and that is something beyond simple budgetary mathematics.

But you don't realize that you're actually speaking a different language than the bureaucrats. You're arguing about the preservation of ancient languages and simultaneously ignoring a semantic difference between your motive and the bureaucratic motive. They speak a financial language, and they're asking for a financial incentive/reason. You're spewing forth Humanities and liberal arts rhetoric that doesn't apply to the situation. Appeal to the financial reasons; appeal to the school's prestige.

And you're not "stooping" to bureaucratic values. When one decides to speak Chinese instead of English, is he choosing to "stoop" or to "rise" to a different level? You hold yourself on some elitist plane where your values are purer, but why should they be?

Basically, I don't think you've provided an argument that will serve your purposes.

 

[Der Morgenstern]

hai guyz we're not condescending but here's a condescending letter telling you we're not

What the fuck were you thinking writing that?

 

[Vimana]

How do the mechanics of ancient languages influence the way we think now? Languages are symbol systems; they represent meaning for us in the way we use them currently. Our methods of "thinking" can only be represented for us in terms of the language(s) we use.

I would argue that despite all our knowledge about ancient languages, our thinking process hasn't been altered all that much.

For the question, it influences the way we think now if the language we speak is derived from said ancient languages.

It actually hasn't stayed the same. Different languages create different modes of thought.

Here's a link to a book that cites a study verifying this.

http://books.google.com/books?id=B2kST7BcVtwC&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&dq=navajo+children+sorting+language+study&source=bl&ots=xc1oSgd7Sd&sig=5lpSWWfQJbplpo4WcAGfD-wdAXI&hl=en&ei=h_O9TIHWOYSdlgej_-ThBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

The way the brain sorts, observes, communicates, etc. is affected by the language one speaks. Whether or not the approaches to thought Latin and Ancient Greek bring are better than English is another question.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

That's a ridiculous question to ask about education.

No, Not when you actually do some reasoning...

Is Calculus and Algebra on a par when it comes to education?

Or is Algebra a necessity and Calculus a conceptual challenge and/or desire?

 

[Chanakya]

Stupid example. Calculus is pretty darned necessary and essential and can easily be applied in professional life..

 

[Pessimism]

hai guyz we're not condescending but here's a condescending letter telling you we're not

What the fuck were you thinking writing that?

I do believe there was already a thread about that.