Programming BASS guitar

[siegfried]

Hello, it´s strange but I cannot find here any thread dedicated to programming and processing bass guitar in metal music (I´m in gothic, doom, industrial, death... etc., not that classic oldschool genres like heavy metal ... If it is here anywhere, please post me a link and than I´m sorry for bad searching. If not, or If you simply want to discuss it here, so...

I want to ask you about good sample libraries (or maybe synths? For second layer...? etc.), programming techniques, processing... I own Spectrasonics Trilogy. Any other tips, please? And what about AmpegSVX software?

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences and have a nice day!

 

[Ihsahn1981]

Check out East West Hardcore Bass.. The demos sounds wicked anyway..

 

[siegfried]

Thank you, you are right, demo sounds very promising! Just it´s a pitty that there are no DI´ed tracks for "software reamping" to IK Multimedia AmpegSVX...

Do you think that distorted bass works better in metal than clean one? I´m a guitarist/producer, but I have experiences mostly with electronica, and now i want to start making complete metal, or metal influenced tracks

 

[MetallyGuitarded]

I use something called Broomstick Bass and it has great sounds stock and lots of articulation control as well. I recently ran it through IK's Ampeg SVX and I liked the results.

Here's the site for Broomstick
http://www.bornemark.se/bb/index.htm

As for programming, I just use Piano Roll. I haven't even tried the articulations in Broomstick yet but it has slapping, slides, stacatto, etc. It sounds pretty damn real even without that stuff. Here's a track I started a while back. It's got no articulation or IK plugin on it. At 1/4 thru it shows a little better how the plugin humanizes. I didn't vary any velocities or anything. I will say that it doesn't do low tuned stuff so hot. This clip here is dropped down to C I think and that's as low as it'll go. I've heard that YellowTools Majestic is pretty bad-ass for electric bass sounds. I always thought Trilogy was more for synth/electronic styles? Ultimately the thing I like most about Broomstick, aside from the generally great sound and control, is that it's MIDI and not audio loops. These two clips I posted are not very representative of what I aim to do but I'm pretty sure no one makes a loop set anything like what I'd like.

Here's a metal tune I started with it as well. Not very prominent and I don't know crap about mixing ( obviously ) but with nothing more than note choice on my part it comes across ok. http://www.metallyguitarded.com/mp3/Projects/AL6-Lock Up The Wolves Rendered.mp3

 

[siegfried]

Thank you! There are many electric and acoustic basses in Trilogy. I don´t use it for synth sounds...

Any other tips, please? Nobody here bass in his/her tracks?

 

[whitedamp]

Propellerheads Reason has many bass samplers and synths, and you can program yours on their synths. Maybe use a clean one on Reason and them apply a "reamping software" like AmpegSVX or Line6 Gearbox later. I guess that my songs fits on the "industrial metal" genre, but I´m using a real bass guitar with Gearbox. Check this song.

 

[MetallyGuitarded]

Also, it's come to my attention that several folks on here and in other similar forums to this play guitar totally clean and just use a VST/DX pitch chifter to drop it an octave. Saves you the trouble of programming, etc.

 

[siegfried]

Metally: I play guitar so i can try it... but sounds like crazy experiment, it must sound absolutly SHITTY IMHO I believe that 100 euro Stagg bass guitar must sound far better than pitched down 1000 euro electric guitar But of course, thanks for tip. Anybody have some experiences with this technique?

 

[kev]

I think pitch shifting a guitar down works so much better than programming these cursed libraries.

 

[SkyMan666]

but I´m using a real bass guitar with Gearbox. Check this song.

OT: Co, I like your bass tone a loooooooot. Is there any chance to get the patch (by the way, will it work with PODxt?)
----
I'm using Trilogy quite often. I'm not a big fan of programmed bass, but what the hell, it comes in handy many times. I have lots of troubles with velocity programming, tho, so I'm lookin' for some tips, too. I'm recently using real bass with my POD, since micing a bass amp for 30 minutes to record some ideas is not really worthy, right...

BR, SkyMan

 

[whitedamp]

OT: Co, I like your bass tone a loooooooot. Is there any chance to get the patch (by the way, will it work with PODxt?)

Unfortunately, no. I record the clean signal (while monitoring with a decent tone on Gearbox), then I duplicate the track and put a Gearbox Plugin (VST) instance on each track.
On the first track I want only the clean lows, so I use Nuendo´s High Pass Filter set on 200Hz, and use a Gearbox patch with the Modern pre amp sim.
On the second track I want just the mid and high distortion growl, so I set the Low Pass Filter at 200Hz and use a Gearbox patch with the Ampeg SVT amp sim and Sansamp BDDI stomp sim.

If you buy the Gearbox Plugin VST on Line6 website for your PODxt you´ll get all these amp sims and you will be able to get this tone, then I can send you the exact patches.

Anyway, you can get an usable tone of a guitar PODxt using only the Bass Overdrive stomp model (Sansamp BDDI sim). If you don´t have this stomp model you have to update your PODxt using Line6 Monkey. Try these settings:

Amp: No amp
Cab: No cab
Volume: 100%
Noise Gate: -60dB ; 0% decay
Stomp: Bass Overdrive - Drive 80%, Gain 100%, Treble 40%, Bass 30%
ER: 0%
Comp: -30dB ; 0dB Gain
EQ: 0@300 ; -5@700 ; +5@1.0Kz ; 0@9.0K

Experiment with different Treble and Bass settings on the Bass Overdrive until it sounds good. Careful with the Bass knob because it easily becomes too boomy. Add gain on the compressor if you need.

 

[Josh Burgess]

Thank you, you are right, demo sounds very promising! Just it´s a pitty that there are no DI´ed tracks for "software reamping" to IK Multimedia AmpegSVX...

Do you think that distorted bass works better in metal than clean one? I´m a guitarist/producer, but I have experiences mostly with electronica, and now i want to start making complete metal, or metal influenced tracks

There is at least one, and it's the absolute best bass sampled instrument around. Look up info on the Scarbee bass samples... particularly the Scarbee Black Bass... They have a DI version and 4 reamped version. extremely realistic sounding. Used with the Kontakt sampler...

 

[MetallyGuitarded]

I got that Scarbee Black Bass 4, loaded it and my PC, older as it is, said NOPE! Too hard on the RAM/CPU for me. I never even got to hear it... : (

 

[Josh Burgess]

I got that Scarbee Black Bass 4, loaded it and my PC, older as it is, said NOPE! Too hard on the RAM/CPU for me. I never even got to hear it... : (

Did you get your money back since it didn't work? What are the specs for your comp, by the way? And you were using it with Kontakt, right?

 

[Where She Wept]

why not buy a real bass?

 

[MetallyGuitarded]

Did you get your money back since it didn't work? What are the specs for your comp, by the way? And you were using it with Kontakt, right?

As I was using it on a ( cough ) pre-buy trial basis ( cough cough ), I had not spent any money on it so a refund wasn't an issue. I was using Kontakt 3. It took about 2-3 minutes just to load Scarbee. I'm pretty sure my PC is just too ghetto.

My PC is:
P4 2.53ghz ( socket 478 aka pre-SSE/SSEII and pre-HyperThreading )
1GB of RAM
3 PATA-100/IDE HD's 40, 60 and 80GB
Tweaked as XP can be and fully updated, virus free, etc...

It's not a PIII but it's not that far from it.

 

[MetallyGuitarded]

BTW - If I could afford a real bass, I would buy one instead of some bass VSTi anyday.

 

[Zack Uidl]

Don't bass samples sound really odd when playing faster parts. I tried it before to try and save time and could not get it to sound good at all for the faster parts.

MetallyGuitared, I am sure someone you know or here or elsewhere could play the parts for you. I have a lot of guitar students that would most likely love to help out play the bass parts for nothing in return but their name in the credits. (I can get any guitar/bass I want from a local store. So really good sounds for sure.) This applies to anyone here who might need some bass work done. Just shoot me an email if you want me to check into it

Just thought I would throw that out there

 

[mintcheerios]

I think pitch shifting a guitar down works so much better than programming these cursed libraries.

I disagree although I'll admit that pitch shifting is definitely easier. Some of these cursed libraries are cursed with full SVT rigs with vintage Rickenbackers and Music Man basses. Someone who fully utilizes key switches and articulations (ie. up down strokes) can make a very good sounding bass line. Pitch shifted guitars don't produce bass growl and never will.

Here are the samples Ihsahn was talking about.

http://www.soundsonline.com/Quantum-Leap-Hardcore-Bass-XP-pr-EW-156.html

It's just like drum programming. A skilled user can make it sound as good as an amateur can make it sound bad.

 

[Where She Wept]

BTW - If I could afford a real bass, I would buy one instead of some bass VSTi anyday.

you could get something cheap like a Rouge from musicians friend for under $100.


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Rogue-SX100B-Series-II-Bass-?sku=512278