Radial X-amp frustration

Splat88

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Jan 31, 2006
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I just received my Radial X-amp and decided to have a go at reamping some material through my Krank Rev Jr. and I've been less than pleased with the results. Here's the current signal chain:

Cubase 6 mono out > M-Audio Fast Track Pro > Balanced 1/4" to XLR feeding the X-amp input > TS9 > Krank.

So right out of the gate, the output level is not only abysmally weak even with the Fast Track and X-amp outputs cranked but the low end of the DI tracks has been stripped. The sound out of the amp is weak and unbelievably thin, like a pickup wired out of phase. I do some interwebz research and I find that weak output seems to be a common problem with the X-amp but I have not seen anything about low end being robbed. To help get a more desirable output, I then ran the output of the Fast Track into a Yamaha mixing board I had laying around. So now its:

Cubase 6 mono out > M-Audio Fast Track Pro > Balanced 1/4" to 1/4" feeding Yamaha mixer (at unity gain) > Mixer output > Balanced 1/4" to XLR feeding the X-amp input > TS9 > Krank.

Output levels are much better with this setup, (I actually had to lower the gain to avoid the clip LED on the X-amp), but the tone is still robbed of lowed. The treble spikes are absolutely ridiculous. Although the output is improved, its still not as good as plugging into the amp directly. I'm thinking the gain makeup must be done post X-amp output, and perhaps that's where the thin tone is coming from.

For what its worth, the DI tracks are of good quality. Passive pickups into Countryman Type 85 > Fast Track > DAW. They sound lovely and beefy fed into VST amp sims.

Anyone have a handle on what's going on here? I've tried multiple cables and combinations of things as well. If not, I'm just going to return this unit and get a redeye or something. Suggestions?
 
You gotta boost the channel input gain, not the channel volume fader, then your low end and gain will appear ;-).

The knob is in the mixer, right above the each channel fader, and you have to press shift to move it. (I assume you are using Cubase)

That's it!
 
Already tried that too with awful results. Still no low end. With the mixer in place I'm getting a plenty hot signal to the X-amp. The input stage was clipping, so that's not the problem. It seems like I need gain post X-amp, but I don't see how just gain will bring the low end back. The sound is completely altered.
 
Matt, I used to add +6dB from the DAW to try and match the levels I got when comparing my guitar "Straight-in" to (your DI's) "reamped" out levels. I understand you have tried this approach, but I didn't notice any loss of any part of the signal. Maybe my ears weren't any good :lol:. I am sure there was a thread that showed how to mod the X-amp (cap and Resistor, I know you shouldn't have to, but it was from Radial themselves IIRC.)

I could PM you links to the stuff I reamped for you in case you don't have them anymore to compare my X-amp results to yours, if you want to? I still have "Clouds at four" with your backing track, as well as some others, I think, etc... (these tracks still KILL me in anticipation of a final release!!!).

One prominant thing I have in my notes about your tracks is that I had to have the Mic angled down a bit, not perfectly ON-Axis to the Speaker. Not sure why from memory.....? It was so long ago.

EDIT: Looking back at the amp settings I used on your tracks, I used the Lead channel of the 6505 with the Gain on 3.5 (so the level was high enough) out of 10, BUT the Bottom/Bass on 9 (out of 10) and Res on 8. Maybe there was a loss of bottom end? Not sure if it was on your DI's or on the X-Amp output. :guh:
 
Matt, I used to add +6dB from the DAW to try and match the levels I got when comparing my guitar "Straight-in" to (your DI's) "reamped" out levels. I understand you have tried this approach, but I didn't notice any loss of any part of the signal. Maybe my ears weren't any good :lol:. I am sure there was a thread that showed how to mod the X-amp (cap and Resistor, I know you shouldn't have to, but it was from Radial themselves IIRC.)

I could PM you links to the stuff I reamped for you in case you don't have them anymore to compare my X-amp results to yours, if you want to? I still have "Clouds at four" with your backing track, as well as some others, I think, etc... (these tracks still KILL me in anticipation of a final release!!!).

One prominant thing I have in my notes about your tracks is that I had to have the Mic angled down a bit, not perfectly ON-Axis to the Speaker. Not sure why from memory.....? It was so long ago.

EDIT: Looking back at the amp settings I used on your tracks, I used the Lead channel of the 6505 with the Gain on 3.5 (so the level was high enough) out of 10, BUT the Bottom/Bass on 9 (out of 10) and Res on 8. Maybe there was a loss of bottom end? Not sure if it was on your DI's or on the X-Amp output. :guh:

Hey thanks for the input, GH. Unfortunately, I have had no luck with any of the suggestions anyone has offered. Something is terribly amiss with the reamped signal. Its not even in the same ballpark as the guitar direct in tone. I'm just going to try another type of reamp box and see if that rectifies the problem. Who knows, perhaps the Fast Track is not suitable for reamping. And yes, if you still have the links to those old reamps, I would love to have them! The hard drive I had them on shit the bed 6 months ago!
 
definitely let us know what comes of this. I am working on a new recording of my band and have opted on the reamping later route since i live in an apartment now. I was considering the x-amp but might not bite based on yours and other reviews ive seen.
 
my x amp sounds great. I DI track into a great river going into a rosetta and I can't tell a difference when a/b reamp vs. non reamp. I've found that by normalizing the recorded track before sending it to the reamp will get you about the same signal level.
 
PM sent Matt.

EDIT, MASSSSSSIVE EDIT: Listening to those vocals on "Clouds..." I am amazed!!!!! Holy Crap, they are brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!! Get this stuff out to the public. I am lucky to be able to hear it!
 
If you send me the DI's until the end of this day I can send them through the X-Amp I borrowed...reamping session coming up tomorrow...
Never had this problem when reamping with the x-amp!
 
I had exactly the same experience as you. I don't think it's the x-amp at fault here...
I originally bought an x-amp and had the above issues, so I sent it back to thomann as defective.
I then replaced it with a Palmer unit and have continued to have the same issues.

I am using a Saffire PRO24 and Logic, and no matter what sort of gain structure I fiddle with I cannot get a remotely "normal" or useable tone from a re-amp. I have not been able to find any sort of resolution to it.
i-know-that-feel-bro.png
 
Hey Matt,

The M-Audio Fast Track Pro, what level is it calibrated to? Ensure that you've got it set in a way where the level of the DIs is nominal for its output. In my case I run my AD-8 at 'Lo-Gain', which basically means -15dBFS = 0dBVU. If my DIs average around -15dB in the DAW, then my reamp box will be receiving them at a fairly 'nominal' level.

Is the X-Amp a passive unit? If it's active, make sure that the battery is fresh, as draining it tends to kill the lows/fidelity overall.

Make sure you don't have any FX or plug-ins running on the output of your Fast Track, as they would naturally alter the tone of the DIs. That means: make sure you don't have any running on the output channel in Cubase!

Otherwise, you might have a defective unit!
 
Hey Matt,

The M-Audio Fast Track Pro, what level is it calibrated to? Ensure that you've got it set in a way where the level of the DIs is nominal for its output. In my case I run my AD-8 at 'Lo-Gain', which basically means -15dBFS = 0dBVU. If my DIs average around -15dB in the DAW, then my reamp box will be receiving them at a fairly 'nominal' level.

Is the X-Amp a passive unit? If it's active, make sure that the battery is fresh, as draining it tends to kill the lows/fidelity overall.

Make sure you don't have any FX or plug-ins running on the output of your Fast Track, as they would naturally alter the tone of the DIs. That means: make sure you don't have any running on the output channel in Cubase!

Otherwise, you might have a defective unit!

Thanks Ermz. No FX running on the output feeding the X-amp. The X-amp is active and has its own power source. Regarding the Fast Track Pro, below are the specs from the manual.

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but could there be an impedance mismatch? The output impedance of the Fast Track is 300 Ohms from the balanced output, but the Radial X-amp has 600 Ohms written above the XLR input.

M-Audio Fast Track Pro
Line Outputs (D/A)
Output Impedance
150 Ohms unbalanced, 300 Ohms balanced
Maximum Output Level
+1.8dBV, unbalanced
+10.1dBu, balanced
Channel-to-Channel Crosstalk
< -108dB
SNR
-103dB, A-weighted
Dynamic Range
103dB, A-weighted
THD+N
0.005% (-86dB) @ -1dBFS, 1kHz
Frequency Response
20Hz to 20kHz, +/- 0.3dB @ 48kHz sample rate
20Hz to 40kHz, +/- 0.5dB @ 96kHz sample rate
 
PM sent Matt.

EDIT, MASSSSSSIVE EDIT: Listening to those vocals on "Clouds..." I am amazed!!!!! Holy Crap, they are brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!! Get this stuff out to the public. I am lucky to be able to hear it!

Haha, thanks dude! We are incredibly slow at getting this out. Its just a bad cliche at this point for fuck's sake, but hey, we've all got busy schedules and its a hobby first and foremost. It still makes my day to know people enjoy the music though. Very gratifying.