Rage Of Achilles call it quits...

[JayKeeley]

there is also the factor of the huge glut of substandard or just horribly dirivitive music that id floating around
not that many are prepared to wade through the endless shit as would say some of the people on this forum who activey seek new and interesting sounds

That's right - I'm not sure what's worse: the labels releasing crap, or bands making crap. As a songwriter, you should know whether something is worthy of releasing or not. If only artists were allowed to release great music, life would be simple.

it makes it hard to sell enough copies of a cd to cover much of the costs
if that were easier then DIY would still be best for us (as an example)
so each release could pay for the next

What do you guys do for a living? Are you paying rent and all the usual stuff?

as it stands after putting all our money into the album and making it as good as we could which took considerable time (could have cut 6-7 months of that given some funds)
we were left with no cash for promotion
sending it to a bunch of labels around the world was a waste of fucking money for a start
withthe next cd we won't be doing that
fuck em

Right, so you're taking the label concept out of the equation then? What does that mean - another limited self release to a select few people?

 

[NAD]

Paul, thanks for the input, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak.

The thing that pisses me off the most is the bigger labels like Century Media and Nuclear Blast have the capacity to push some great groups, but they waste a lot of their time and effort on shite. What gets me is that if quality bands were pushed, they would make waves. These labels dictate what young (as in new to the game) metalheads listen to outside the mainstream unless they actively pursue underground acts like people on forums such as this.

 

[JayKeeley]

Theoretically Nuclear Blast and co. could sign decent bands, but they don't give a flying fuck about "pushing some great groups." They exist to maximize profit, and for that reason only. If it sells, they sign it. As you know, good music doesn't sell.

"If it sells"? Excuse my ignorance, but are people still buying melodeath, metalcore, and other pop metal albums from unknown bands? I understand why NB would be all over Helloween, Dimmu Borgir, etc because they have an existing substantial fan base so it makes great business sense for them, and those fans are going nowhere....but the new signings? Who's buying Impernon, Ektomorf, Raunchy, and Farmer Boys? Who within the ranks of NB decided that these bands were capable of turning a profit?

Well, I guess there's always the German and Japanese markets. They buy anything.

 

[NAD]

They'll push shit like Ektomorf and it'll probably sell because it'll inundate their ads, website, etc. JayKeeley did you listen to that mess before passing it my way? It's IIIIIEIWIIEIEIDSI how similar he sounds to Max. Even the fucking accent!

How funny, I just got an email from Best Buy: EVERYTHING FROM RELAPSE AND CENTURY MEDIA ON SALE THIS WEEK ONLY!!! Never thought I would see something like that.

 

[J.]

How funny, I just got an email from Best Buy: EVERYTHING FROM RELAPSE AND CENTURY MEDIA ON SALE THIS WEEK ONLY!!! Never thought I would see something like that.

Because Best Buy dorks don't know those bands, since they aren't plastered on their Top 10 sections and Best-Sellers.

This might be a good opportunity to pick up the new Borknagar for a good price (ie under $13), though. The End has gotten a little pricey for questionable albums.

 

[NAD]

I would take advantage of the offer, but I truly hate Best Buy and refuse to give them money. The only reason I'm on their email list is because they sent me a $5 coupon (part of some class action bullshit), so I bought Godspeed You! Black Emperor for cheap.

 

[JayKeeley]

Speaking of class action, I assume everyone's going into that PayPal dispute right? I mean, it's $50 at a minimum.

 

[NAD]

I'm anti-class action suits, and that Paypal thing is only for people who accepted money between certain dates (I think...?). I don't think I've accepted cash via Paypal before so it doesn't apply to me anyhow.

(I'm anti-class action suits because they give no real damage to the plaintiffs, but the lawyers come away making millions those FUCKING ASSHOLES DESTROYING THE FABRIC OF THE U.S. ONE FRIVOLOUS LAWSUIT AT A TIME )

 

[J.]

PayPal what?

Sorry Erik.

"Excluded from the class are any judicial officer to whom the lawsuit is assigned; PayPal and any of its affiliates; any current or former employee, officer, or director of PayPal; anyone who resides in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Finland, France, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, The Netherlands, or United Kingdom; and all persons who timely and validly request exclusion from the class pursuant to this notice."

 

[J.]

I don't think I've accepted cash via Paypal before so it doesn't apply to me anyhow.

"IF YOU OPENED A PAYPAL ACCOUNT BETWEEN OCTOBER 1999 AND JANUARY 2004, YOU MAY BE ENTITLED TO A PAYMENT FROM A CLASS ACTION SETTLEMENT."

 

[J.]

...but I don't even know what the fuck this whole thing is about in the first place. Anyone care to elaborate?

"3. WHAT IS THIS LAWSUIT ABOUT?
In early 2002, Plaintiffs Roberta Toher and Jeffrey Resnick filed separate lawsuits against PayPal, Inc. These two cases were later consolidated into one lawsuit in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, San Jose Division, entitled In re PayPal Litigation, Case No. CV 02 01227-JF (PVT). The lawsuit alleges that PayPal violated the federal Electronic Fund Transfer Act ("EFTA"), 15 U.S.C. §§ 1693 et seq., including provisions requiring PayPal to supply customers with information about dispute resolution procedures and to follow certain procedures when investigating complaints of unauthorized or incorrect electronic fund transfers. For example, the lawsuit claims that PayPal did not provide account statements in the manner required by the EFTA. The lawsuit further alleges that PayPal has placed inappropriate restrictions or other limits on customers' accounts and engaged in other improper practices. Based on these practices, the lawsuit asserts claims under California state law for conversion, money had and received, negligence, and violations of consumer protection statutes.

PayPal does not believe that it did anything wrong. In fact, PayPal disputes that the EFTA, originally passed in 1978, applies to its business. PayPal denies any and all liability for the claims alleged in the lawsuit. The Court did not decide in favor of the Plaintiffs or PayPal. Instead, beginning in the fall of 2003, the parties began a series of settlement negotiation sessions mediated by United States Magistrate Judge Edward Infante. Eventually, in November 2003, both sides agreed to a settlement in principle. By settling their claims, both parties avoided the uncertainty and cost of a trial. The settlement provides money and other benefits to the Class. On June 11, 2004, the parties entered into a formal, written Settlement Agreement, which is on file with the Court and available on the Internet at https://www.paypal.com/settlement/</B>. By entering into the Settlement Agreement, PayPal is not admitting any wrongdoing. PayPal continues to believe that it did not do anything wrong. The Representative Plaintiffs and the attorneys appointed by the Court to represent the Class believe that the settlement is fair to Class Members. By this notice, the Court is not expressing any view on the merits of the lawsuit."

 

[NAD]

Oh okay. I thought I read the fine print and it said for those who collecting money. I deleted the email already, fuck class action lawsuits.

Hmm though, $50 is a bit of cash, usually these things end up being $8.00 or something. I was involved with one for Playstation, they said because of shoddy design forcing anyone to get a repair, they'll give you $25. I took that, but was still pissed because it cost me $90 to repair the fucking PSX to begin with. Assholes.

 

[J.]

Speaking of class action, I assume everyone's going into that PayPal dispute right? I mean, it's $50 at a minimum.

Are you going to do this? I thought about it, but don't we have to prove some sort of damages:

"a. Short Form Claimants
The Short Claim Form requires you to provide certain identifying information and sign a statement under penalty of perjury, which may be verified using PayPal's records, that you experienced an unauthorized or incorrect electronic transfer or an account limitation or denial of access to your account. If you make a timely, valid claim using the Short Claim Form, you will receive a payment of $50, unless the amount needed to pay all of the Short Form claims exceeds the Short Form Fund. In that case, the Short Form Fund will be divided equally among all Short Form Claimants. If the amount needed to pay all of the Short Form claims is less than the amount of the Short Form Fund, the money left over will be added to the Long Form Fund."

 

[unhinged]

If only artists were allowed to release great music, life would be simple

well we all think that Jay but who would have the right to judge it?
I wouldn't deny anybodys right to make music or indeed art
but as its been said maybe some people could judge wether they're doing something WORTHWHILE.
I guess the call to notoriety is too great for some people.

+ what sort of percentage of labels take a risk these days?

What do you guys do for a living? Are you paying rent and all the usual stuff?

the other two are unemployed at the minute, looking for work....ahem
they get fuck all money for that and are back living at home annoying thier parents, rent is crazy here

I'm looking for a job now in graphic design, skint
I have rent to pay + a family to support, which means any money I make has to go towards that.

maybe we should get some rich kid in on bagpipes or something...?

Right, so you're taking the label concept out of the equation then? What does that mean - another limited self release to a select few people?

well for the next cd i don't think any labels would even look at it
its sort of a between albums thing
the idea is this
one song - instrumental 25-30 minutes long
thats the bit we're trying to rehearse.
its pretty tough, there are no repeated parts

also following that there will be an ambient version made from the tracks of the instrumental 20-25 mins

and finally a third super-harsh version thats the soundtrack to a short animated film I'm making for it
all very conceptual haha

the packaging
will be a three panel fold out cardboard thing with a slipcase insert for he disk.
no plastic, no text and no fucking barcode
expensive, but I want to sell it cheap

take this idea to a label and give it to the head of marketing haha

so how do you fund something like that with zero cash?

with great dificulty, but whats the point in just banging any old shit out?

I'm going to apply for a grant from the arts council of northern ireland because its such a strange project they might go for it
they'll pay for the recording and the expenses for art / design but not the pressing / printing

they usually accept weird jazz + classical stuff
I have to send them a previous recording
hopefully they'll turn headworm off before the distorted guitars come in
haha

seriously I need to do some serious fucking writing on a 12 page application for this
make animation samples and everything without mentioning the word metal once or it'll go in the bin....we're avante garde art rock man

aside from that I'd hoped to sell the licence to headworm here and there to fund it
we'll get some preorders near the time for pressing but its a fucking struggle

pete scald is now playing bass in the dagda too they're touring europe in a couple of months so hopefully he'll sell some worms along the way

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
the next full album will need label support
i just don't know how we'll afford that otherwise because its a huge project
that needs to be done right, no point otherwise

it would be a shame if it never saw the light of day

 

[NAD]

I want to hear that NOW. I would bet a label like Willowtip or Southern Lord would dig you guys, have you approached them with anything?

 

[unhinged]

I sent them both headworm
didn't even get a reply
brian from watchmaker really enjoyed it and said he'd talk to the willowtip guy to ask him to listen to it

 

[Demonspell]

I would definitely be interested in hearing this longform instrumental excursion, having no repetition over such a long period should prevent listeners from drifting off, and demand total attention in order to follow its development...

 

[NAD]

I'm surprised really. Maybe Tipton will chime in, he's kind of like Beetlejuice, if you say his or his label's name three times he usually appears with a lengthy post.

 

[dill_the_devil]

Hope you get somewhere with that Paul, I love what I've heard of Scald so far (mainly stuff I've downloaded off your site) and that particular concept for a record sounds really kick-ass.

By the way... am I the only one alive who thinks Ektomorf are kind of okay? Yeah, I know they're ripping off late-Seps/early-Soulfly so much the lawyers are probably rubbing their hands with glee, but it's better than the last couple of Soulfly albums by far...

 

[unhinged]

willowtip willowtip willowtip

will that do it?
seriously i'd like some feedback from labels

I know one stumbling block for a lot of people are petes vocals
maybe on an instrumental we'll be popular hahaha doubt it

"I would definitely be interested in hearing this longform instrumental excursion, having no repetition over such a long period should prevent listeners from drifting off, and demand total attention in order to follow its development..."

when I say no repetition i mean some of the riffs go on a bit...the doomier ones maybe
but not super long
but we never return to a riff
there is one note that we return to quite a few times just to have some cohesion, if that makes any sense, but there'd be more than enough to make an album in there for sure.
i think it works better than you'd expect, well hopefully it wont turn out a complete mess haha