RAW & REAL - Brutal Death

[Fragle]

hi folks,

finished tracking a brutal death band last weekend.
i'm currently fooling around with reamping guitars and bass etc, determining the overall direction of the mix.

here's what i got so far:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1296348/Andy Sneap Forum Files/Candero - Raped By The Government.mp3

this is merely a tracking mix and a quick master on top.
guitars were done with my ENGL fireball 100 (4 tracks) -> catharsis s-pres high impulse. normally i'm not a big fan of impulses, especially not the spreshigh with it's abundance of low mids and lacking highs, but those guys have a very special taste in tones....very high gain, scooped mids, and very smooth high end, so the spreshigh fit rather well actually.
the overall thing is supposed to have a devourment/new defeated sanity sort of vibe.....like oldschool death metal production with a more modern edge.

don't mind the outro, it obviously needs a fadeout.

after giving it a few listens on different setups i think i mainly need to work on the vocals (which doesn't surprise me as i've barely touched them so far), and i'm not quite sure what to think of the guitar tone....it's so not my cup of tea, but it's really close to what they gave me in terms of reference mixes.

anyways, feel free to comment and rip apart.

i'll post a more refined mix in a few days.

 

[Fragle]

guess real drums and real guitar/bass amps aren't what people here are willing to comment on, huh?

 

[Folkrav]

I feel like the vocals are separated from the mix, a bit too loud maybe. I'm not a fan of the guitar tone, too much low mids and almost no highs (if any?) for my taste, even for brutal death, but they asked for it, whatever. Can't say it's my cup of tea haha...

 

[Plankis]

Guitars sounds pretty good soloed in my opinion. They do get drowned out when the rest of the band kicks in, controlling those low mids a bit more might help.

 

[Pxz]

sounds preety raw indeed, totally fits the vibe of the band. I think there is little to much low mids on the guitar. Anyway i think you pretty much nailed what the band was asking for.

 

[Sam Bottner]

Not a fan of all the low mids in the guitar tone. Soloed it sounds alright, but when everything comes in, it gets muddy. I like the sort of lack of highs though. Just cut some 200hz and you should be fine on that. Vocals definitely need work, although I couldn't tell you what kind since I have very little experience with vocals.

 

[Fragle]

well, the band just told me the guitars need to have even MORE low end punch.
if i cut some low mids, i'll have to add a lot of 100hz-ish bass to make it have that "punch", and then i might as well say good bye to the bass guitar - it was kinda hard to dial in a tone that fit somewhere between the kick low end and the massive wall of guitars as it is.

i'm really not sure where to go with this mix.
personally, i'd cut quite some lows/low mids on the guitars, add a bunch of treble and mids, and compensate the lost low end with a more grinding bass.
unfortunately, that would be the opposite of what the band is asking for.

thanks for the comments btw.
as for the vocals, i barely touched them so far - i agree with the "detached" comment.

 

[Sam Bottner]

If they want more low end punch, work on the bass tone. For sure the guitars need less low mids. Don't let the band ruin your mix.

 

[Morgan C]

I felt the issue with the guitars was even lower, like 50-100hz. HUGE amount of lowend on them.

 

[DolphinSplatter]

i like it

 

[Fragle]

nah, they were specifically talking about the guitars solo'ed.
i actually dig the bass tone quite a lot, sansamp psa-1 all the way.
i think i'll do another set of reamps with a clearer and more defined tone (probably 5150 time) and blend that with the ENGL without them knowing.

i actually don't mind the low end on the guitars, it fits the style, i just don't like the lack of note definition, hence the 5150 idea.

i still don't get the "punchy" comment though.....so, what would you guys do to add some more punch to the guitars and mix??

 

[Fragle]

updated file:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1296348/lesch/Candero - Raped By The Government (reamp 3).mp3

ditched the impulse thing, dude was right about the punch thing, but worded it wrong....it's not lack of low end, but overall punch, and i'm willing to bet my ass that the static impulse sound is to blame for that.

new setup:
main pair: tubescreamer -> 5150 lead channel -> framus 212cs cab -> sm57 and sm58 (popfilter unscrewed) on different speakers (phase aligned obviously), 58 lower in the mix. just a touch of EQ
second pair: tubescreamer -> fireball 100 lead channel -> same thing as the 5150 sound.

also worked a bit on the rest of the instruments, but it's still not *really* mixed. quick master on top too.
what do you think?
one thing that amazes me is that real guitars take EQ so much better than impulses.....

 

[Fragle]

anyone?

 

[AllanD]

Damn that tone rip, sounds so much less flat than the impulses!

 

[chrisrivalry]

I like the high end a lot better on the first track, but the second one def sounds better.

 

[metalfanat1c]

Drop the vocals a touch. The guitars sound awesome, everything sounds awesome now actually. Work on getting a bit more 150-250hz area in the bass tone and you'll have a damn good mix.

 

[dcb]

nah, they were specifically talking about the guitars solo'ed.
i actually dig the bass tone quite a lot, sansamp psa-1 all the way.
i think i'll do another set of reamps with a clearer and more defined tone (probably 5150 time) and blend that with the ENGL without them knowing.

i actually don't mind the low end on the guitars, it fits the style, i just don't like the lack of note definition, hence the 5150 idea.

i still don't get the "punchy" comment though.....so, what would you guys do to add some more punch to the guitars and mix??

if they want punch, PUNCH them in the face and ask them if THAT is enough for them , haha.
seriously, most bands are stupid as fuck when it comes to mixing...
but there is always at least one intelligent guy in a band that understand :
lots of 50hz in the guitars means less 50hz on bass and kick...
maybe look for THAT person in the band (mostly the drummer or/and bassist)
and tell them : if guitars get more low end, MY instrument sufffers.
youll immediately have the band discuss everything and HOPEFULLY
guitarists understand that their suggestions are great for soloed guitars,
but really bad for a full mix

also punch is too subjective to actually understand what they mean.
what i understand as punchy guitars has always been the lowest gain
possible combined with really tight playing.

maybe they should show you a better example of what they mean (song/bandwise)

haveent listen to the mix yet, i will get back to you when im on my opals!

 

[Sam Bottner]

well, the band just told me the guitars need to have even MORE low end punch.

I was simply repeating what you said with the low end punch so if I worded it wrong, so did you...

Anyway, the new mix sounds a lot better but the master is pumping a ton. Bring the kick down a little bit.

 

[Felix Neumann]

Totally diggin´this..holy shit, vocalist sounds like a bad ass monster!! I like the production & the mix - it´s perfect for this style of music imo. And I always give Kudos to real drums & real amps Good job, sir!

 

[lolzgreg]

if they want punch, PUNCH them in the face and ask them if THAT is enough for them , haha.

Punch=good playing.

No punch=bad playing.

/punch