Re-Amping confusion

[musickey]

Ok I need some advice. I just recently bought a Radial X-Amp and this is my first attempt at re-amping. I was under the impression that I could record a clean direct signal from my guitar into my DAW and then run the output of my interface (Firepod) into the X-amp and then to the amp and so on. This process worked for me but the signal was not hot enough to really get the gain that was typical out of my Mesa Triple Rect. I even turned the output channel of the guitar track all the way up and the master out on Nuendo all the way up and it still seemed like it was a guitar that had the volume turned down and plugged into the mesa, o yeah and the master on the X-Amp was all the way up as well and the guitar track was recorded at around 0dB. The reason for wanting to do this is lack of space and isolation in my studio the logic is that I could track all the stringed instruments at the same time the drums were being tracked. I would use guitar rig or something on the output of the guitars just to give it a little gain, and remove it once they were tracked while just the clean direct sound of the guitar’s were being recorded. And after I got through tracking the drums I could just re-amp the guitars and I will have killed to birds with one stone. If any of this rambling makes scents to anyone please help a fool out. Sorry so long winded

 

[Mutant]

Ok I need some advice. I just recently bought a Radial X-Amp and this is my first attempt at re-amping. I was under the impression that I could record a clean direct signal from my guitar into my DAW and then run the output of my interface (Firepod) into the X-amp and then to the amp and so on. This process worked for me but the signal was not hot enough to really get the gain that was typical out of my Mesa Triple Rect. I even turned the output channel of the guitar track all the way up and the master out on Nuendo all the way up and it still seemed like it was a guitar that had the volume turned down and plugged into the mesa, o yeah and the master on the X-Amp was all the way up as well and the guitar track was recorded at around 0dB. The reason for wanting to do this is lack of space and isolation in my studio the logic is that I could track all the stringed instruments at the same time the drums were being tracked. I would use guitar rig or something on the output of the guitars just to give it a little gain, and remove it once they were tracked while just the clean direct sound of the guitar’s were being recorded. And after I got through tracking the drums I could just re-amp the guitars and I will have killed to birds with one stone. If any of this rambling makes scents to anyone please help a fool out. Sorry so long winded

I'm not an X-Amp user, so i may be wrong, but if you have very hot active pickups and if X-Amp outputs at a normal passive pickup level then the difference may be the reason.
(pure speculation)

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I would guess from personal experience it's probably your output settings on the firepod...what options do you have there?

 

[musickey]

Yes i am using EMG 81 set in a jackson, but the gain still doesnt match the passives i have in my other axe.

 

[musickey]

yeah i guiss i could turn the main master on the firepod up to achieve the right level, its just it seems like i shouldnt have to push the clean uneffected guitar track so much to achieve the same signal as the guitar output

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

No, no, you're misunderstanding me...I mean what dB are the firepod outputs set at? For instance with the Emu 1616 you can choose between -10 and +4 and on digi 001 you have even more choice there

 

[musickey]

No, no, you're misunderstanding me...I mean what dB are the firepod outputs set at? For instance with the Emu 1616 you can choose between -10 and +4 and on digi 001 you have even more choice there

O shit good call im using 2 firepods now and i dont know for sure how to check dB of the individual outputs on it yet, i do know that they its not a switch next to the outputs themselves like on my delta 1010. but thats a good call i will check into to that for sure! thanx

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

good luck

 

[smrtaz]

Firepod Manual:
-Page 15-

NOTE: Active instruments are those that have an internal preamp or a line level output. Active
instruments should be plugged into a line input rather than into an instrument input. In other words,
don’t plug an active instrument into the combo jacks on channels 1 or 2.




Firepod is +4 device

 

[ApolloSpeed]

Firepod Manual:
-Page 15-

NOTE: Active instruments are those that have an internal preamp or a line level output. Active
instruments should be plugged into a line input rather than into an instrument input. In other words,
don’t plug an active instrument into the combo jacks on channels 1 or 2.




Firepod is +4 device

but, he's looking for outputs to go back into the amp.......not inputs, right ?

 

[smrtaz]

but, he's looking for outputs to go back into the amp.......not inputs, right ?

Those are on the X-Amp!!
http://www.radialeng.com/di-xamp.htm

http://www.radialeng.com/di-xamp-usage.htm


But which input or device did he use to record his Jackson with the Active EMG 81's?
And at what peak level did he record the input at?





http://presonus.com/pdf/fpmanual.pdf


Firepod Manual:
-Page 17-

CUE Mix Line Out. This outputs the results of the setting of the Mix knob on the front of the unit. The Mix
knob is a balance control between the inputs and the first two outputs.

Line Inputs/Preamp Outputs.
The FIREPOD features ¼” TRS balanced Send and Return jacks on Channels 1 and 2.
These jacks are labeled as Preamp Output (SEND) and Line Input (Return). These
connectors will accept either balanced (TRS – Tip Ring Sleeve) ¼” cables or unbalanced TS (Tip Sleeve)
¼” cables. These connectors allow the use of external processors such as reverbs, de-essers, limiters,
EQ’s, etc. Simply connect the Preamp Output jack, balanced or unbalanced to the input of the external
processor. Then connect the FIREPOD’s Line Input jack to the output of the external processor. The signal
is now routed out of the FIREPOD, into the external processor, then back into the FIREPOD. The final,
processed signal will be available to record now. The Line Input can also be used as a standard line level
input for devices that do not require pre-amplification (such as a CD player, drum machine, sampler and
etc.).

NOTE: The line inputs on channels 1 and 2 take precedence over the combo mic/Instrument inputs
on the front of the unit. If a cable is plugged into channel one line input on the rear of the
FIREPOD, then the mic/instrument input on channel one will be inactive until the cable is removed
from line input 1.




Firepod Manual:
-Page 18-

4 . 2
USING THE PREAMP OUTPUT / LINE INPUT AS AN INSERT

The FIREPOD features ¼” TRS balanced Send and Return jacks on Channels 1 and 2. These jacks are
labeled as Preamp Output (SEND) and Line Input (Return). These connectors allow the use of external
processors such as reverbs, de-essers, limiters, EQ’s, etc. Simply connect the Preamp Output jack, balanced
or unbalanced to the input of the external processor. Then connect the FirePod’s Line Input jack to the output
of the external processor. The signal is now routed out of the FIREPOD, into the external processor, then back
into the FIREPOD. The final, processed signal will be available to record now. The Line Input can also be used
as a standard line level input for devices that do not require preamplification (such as a CD player, drum
machine, sampler and etc.).
NOTE: The line inputs on channels 1 and 2 take precedence over the combo mic/Instrument inputs
on the front of the unit. If a cable is plugged into channel one line input on the rear of the
FIREPOD, then the mic/instrument input on channel one will be inactive until the cable is removed
from line input 1.

 

[musickey]

Firepod Manual:
-Page 15-

NOTE: Active instruments are those that have an internal preamp or a line level output. Active
instruments should be plugged into a line input rather than into an instrument input. In other words,
don’t plug an active instrument into the combo jacks on channels 1 or 2.




Firepod is +4 device

yeah i figured that one out but thanx though man

 

[musickey]

But which input or device did he use to record his Jackson with the Active EMG 81's?
And at what peak level did he record the input at?

I plugged into the 3rd input on the firepod and got the signal at about 0dB.
Ithink it might be a matter of the main mix on the firepod just turning the output mix up, but it just seems like i shouldnt have to drive the volume that much to get the Mesa to sound right. im going to try a few things tonight. and thanks for all the help man!!! if i can get this shit figured out it is going to make a huge fucking differance in the amount of tracking time on my productions!!! and to anyone wanting to try some re-amping techniques this thread might help resolve some issues before they begin

 

[ApolloSpeed]

just wondering......is it hard for a guitarist to record guitar parts that are supposed to be distorted, clean (because of re-amp).

I think it would be kinda wierd try to jam and get the feeling of a song when ya got no tone or distortion.

 

[A Gruesome Discovery]

Also, be sure you're sending the DI'd track out through a mono buss to the X-Amp. If you're using a mono track, but still routing through a main buss, Nuendo's panning law comes into play and all center-panned signals are attenuated by 3dB. It's worth checking your Nuendo preferences, turning "Panning Law" to "none", and seeing if that changes the level of your track while reamping (this will, of course, change the level of all your tracks, so remember where the setting is located so you can change it back to -3dB after testing).
Also, this struck me as odd:

NOTE: Active instruments are those that have an internal preamp or a line level output. Active instruments should be plugged into a line input rather than into an instrument input.

I've been recording active pickups through a regular instrument DI for years. I should have been going straight to line? That can't be.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

just wondering......is it hard for a guitarist to record guitar parts that are supposed to be distorted, clean (because of re-amp).

I think it would be kinda wierd try to jam and get the feeling of a song when ya got no tone or distortion.

Well, obviously you'd still be running through a pod or the like when you're tracking to get that feel.

However, you bring up an interesting point in that the sound of the pod is not nearly going to be the same as that of say a recto, so the playing will be slightly different. I don't think this matters so much in demo-level stuff, but on professional recordings, I would think you'd want to be monitoring with the same amp you plan to reamp out of if possible.

Also, one great thing about reamping is that it's actually really easy to tell if takes are tight with each other because notes on clean guitars are so much more clear than distorted--really easy to say, "do it again," you don't have to think about it. IYKWIM

 

[ApolloSpeed]

I got a question......could you for say.....run the guitar into a 5150 and mic it up to get the sound on one track.

While doing this, on the 5150 "preamp out" go to the re-amp box on a different track at the same time???

That way you get good monitoring and yet able to re-amp where desired??

 

[Doom Monk]

sorry to get off topic but this re-amping thing just came up on time, i recently read an article about makiing ur own re-amp in a box from the recorsing magazine of april's issue, anyways whut i didnt totally understand is whut is actually re-amping and whuts its main purpose from whut i read all it does is reamplify an already amplified signal and it helps get a better amplified signal from the first one im already confused, is it really that useful can u guys also help me out with examples?

cheers

 

[Death Is Certain]

Keep us updated MusicKey, I was thinking about picking up a Firepod, but if the reamping doesn't work right then I might have to look at a different unit.

 

[006]

Doom Monk - it doesn't reamplify an already amplified signal. Basically, you do this in two steps. Step One : Plug your guitar into a splitter/2ch DI box. From there, one output goes to your PODxt or whatever you want for the scratch tone. The other output goes straight into your DAW or whatever you use to record.

If you've ever plugged your guitar straight into your computer, you hear just a clean guitar signal that sounds kinda weak, yanno? Well this is the same thing you will be sending to the reamping box.

Step Two : You then send the direct guitar signal (clean direct guitar) out of whatever you are using to record with and straight into a reamping box, whether it be the original ReAmp, Radial X-Amp, home made, whatever. What the reamping box does, basically, is recreate the effect of plugging straight into your amp. Or recreate the impedance of your pickups. So what happens is, you are basically plugging straight into your amp at this point, it's the same thing. You then play back the direct guitar signal while recording a mic'ed amp that has the reamp signal going into it. What the amplifier recieves is not an already amplified signal. It's just the direct guitar signal. Same as plugging in.

The purpose of this tool is very useful. I use it primarily at the studio to get the sessions done faster. What I do is have the guitarist go into a Morley ABY splitter and have one channel output going to our PODxt Pro, and the other channel out going directly into the DAW. I record that and tell them to play their parts for real, after explaining that this will not be the tone on the album, but rather a scratch tone so we can get things done faster. Basically once they realize I am saving them money on studio time they usually have no problem just going with the flow. We track the drums, final bass, and final guitar *playing* all at once. Go back and do vocals. Then once thats all done, we sit there and get the guitar tone they really want from their amplifier by adjusting the parameters on the head/combo whatever as the guitar parts are looped and going out through the reamp into the amp. This allows you to sit there and really get into how the guitar is going to sound, instead of having only 30 minutes to get a tone, mic it up, and hope you can do some studio magic later if you have to because of time restraints. I can just record it all, set the tone later spending all the time we need, then once they leave, I record all of the guitars with their amp using the direct guitars they played earlier. This saves them money becuase we charge a flat rate fee for this and not an hourly fee like the rest of the session. Instead of them spending $100's on a few hours of work, they spend $100 on top of the hours they were actually in the studio. it works out for both of us.

I also use a ReAmp for my live recording rig. Typically venues suck at getting good guitar tones, mainly for local acts. National acts tend to bring their own sound guys and it usually sounds awesome. Local acts get the shaft in this area. So I have the guitarist(s) plug into a 2ch DI and I record the venue's signal from their board and the DI guitar from the player(s). This way, in case the venue sucks and the guitars sound like shit, I can reamp later and have a really nice guitar recording for a live cd.

It's an indespensable tool once you get it and get use to using it often, you'll wonder why you didn't have one sooner. I know I did, .

~006