Recording bands soon, need general advice

[AllanD]

This is the first time I'm going to be using my new gear in the field, which consists of my Firepod 2626. This is also my first metal band that I'm going to be recording, so I have a few general questions.


1. How do I, or most of you guys go about recording the drums? The whole way through? Every couple of bars? Let's always assume the drummer is a bad one that can barely play through a metronome, and I want a very tight sound. All I'm used to is drummers playing the whole way through. Will cymbal artifacts be jumping everywhere if I do every 4 bars or so?

2. I'm planning on making samples of each drum, then using only triggers and overhead mics while actually recording(lack of mics for each individual drum). Is this a good idea? I'm thinking maybe only mic the kick and snare to identify false/double triggers.

3. I'm thinking of using just a SM57 for the vocals. Is this a good idea? The only other mic I could use for recording is a MXLv63 condenser, which isn't that brilliant. What I'm mostly worried about is too much dynamics/moving around, because once again I'm imagining an inexperienced band member. The condenser will obviously make that less of a problem, but then the vocals won't sound too great because of the mic quality.

 

[006]

Just wanted to say I have used an SM57 numerous times for recording vocals, aggressive and singing, and I haven't had a problem with it sounding bad at all. Only thing you need to do is make sure the vocalist(s) do not put their hand near the plastic end, hold only metal.

 

[AllanD]

Just wanted to say I have used an SM57 numerous times for recording vocals, aggressive and singing, and I haven't had a problem with it sounding bad at all. Only thing you need to do is make sure the vocalist(s) do not put their hand near the plastic end, hold only metal.

Was the mic on a stand? Or did you just give the vocalist the mic and let him go crazy? Was a pop filter/mic cap used?

 

[cloy26]

The way I record drums, which is probably very different than the more experienced pro guys on here, works well for me, but is very time consuming.

Assuming its metal like I normally do, think sturgis robotic drum feel, I record all the drums regularly with 57s and a beta 52a. I record the overheads with a spaced pair of condensers. Make sure to use a click track. Hopefully they will be able to. I have done a few bands that couldn't grasp the feel of playing to a click...

You can punch out whenever you feel its necessary. Try not doing it too much, but don't be scared, it's all good. Just make sure you cross fade the splits in the OHs right.

Once I have the tracks done, I will convert them to MIDI with the plugin in reaper. I trigger the kick and snare in superior 2.0. Once the kick and snare are done, I get to work. Assuming they are done to the click, I quantize it all by hand, adding the fills where necessary. I listen back to the original takes frequently and bounce back and forth making sure the midi version is the same.

As for OHs, I use the real OHs sometimes, but with this last band I did, I drew in all the cymbal hits for clarity and tightness. I was quantization too much to put em up there.

All this information is of course only applicable if you are doing it the way i do it. As for quantizing real audio, make sure you group all your tracks in a group and then edit from there. You don't want to edit just the kick, and then the snare, then overheads... You'll end up with a big mess.

Again, don't quote me, I am just a small time ae. lol

 

[ahjteam]

3. I'm thinking of using just a SM57 for the vocals. Is this a good idea? The only other mic I could use for recording is a MXLv63 condenser, which isn't that brilliant. What I'm mostly worried about is too much dynamics/moving around, because once again I'm imagining an inexperienced band member. The condenser will obviously make that less of a problem, but then the vocals won't sound too great because of the mic quality.

I would say go and try the MXL first, just remember to use a popfilter. If it sounds tolerateable, I'd say go with it. It most likely has a lot better signal to noise ratio than SM57. And another reason I don't like handheld mics for vocals is the proximity effect.

 

[006]

Was the mic on a stand? Or did you just give the vocalist the mic and let him go crazy? Was a pop filter/mic cap used?

I just let them hold it. I usually put tape on the casing and tell them to not go past that tape with their hand. Here is a quick pic I snapped:

Sometimes they don't get it and I have to put bright neon pink tape on there

Now, I should say that my first choice is my NT2 condensor, but some people don't work well with condensors on stands with pop filters. Some people just need a handheld mic in order to get decent takes out of them.

 

[cloy26]

I have never done vocals with a 57 as I always use my condensers, however, have you guys ever used a 57 and blared the music through speakers instead of headphones? Is that feasible? I am working with a guy right now who can't scream with headphones at all...

 

[AllanD]

The way I record drums, which is probably very different than the more experienced pro guys on here, works well for me, but is very time consuming.

Assuming its metal like I normally do, think sturgis robotic drum feel, I record all the drums regularly with 57s and a beta 52a. I record the overheads with a spaced pair of condensers. Make sure to use a click track. Hopefully they will be able to. I have done a few bands that couldn't grasp the feel of playing to a click...

You can punch out whenever you feel its necessary. Try not doing it too much, but don't be scared, it's all good. Just make sure you cross fade the splits in the OHs right.

Once I have the tracks done, I will convert them to MIDI with the plugin in reaper. I trigger the kick and snare in superior 2.0. Once the kick and snare are done, I get to work. Assuming they are done to the click, I quantize it all by hand, adding the fills where necessary. I listen back to the original takes frequently and bounce back and forth making sure the midi version is the same.

As for OHs, I use the real OHs sometimes, but with this last band I did, I drew in all the cymbal hits for clarity and tightness. I was quantization too much to put em up there.

All this information is of course only applicable if you are doing it the way i do it. As for quantizing real audio, make sure you group all your tracks in a group and then edit from there. You don't want to edit just the kick, and then the snare, then overheads... You'll end up with a big mess.

Again, don't quote me, I am just a small time ae. lol

Damn, so you don't use any of the real drums INCLUDING overheads? Ouch. I've never EVER had to edit/quantize anything before. This is going to be a tough conquest.

 

[cloy26]

Like I said, its whatever the music calls for. The style I want to go for is the tight robotic drums, obviously all music doesn't call for that.

Don't get in over your head. If you don't feel comfortable with your gear, don't delve into quantizing every single note. You will feel more comfortable the more time you put in and the more bands you record. If they are halfway decent musicians it would be too awfully bad, especially for your first time. Besides, a lot of the guys probably think I am foolish to fix every note, but I never get good results from the automated grid aligning. I would rather take the time and do it right.

 

[AllanD]

So how many punches do you usually do? I was thinking doing the 4 bar thing because I want to avoid doing that much editing.

 

[006]

I have never done vocals with a 57 as I always use my condensers, however, have you guys ever used a 57 and blared the music through speakers instead of headphones? Is that feasible? I am working with a guy right now who can't scream with headphones at all...

Yeah that's actually part of what I was talking about but didn't mention, sorry. I just finished an old school death metal band like a week or two ago where we did vocal tracking this way. He was in the room with me, I had the monitors up to where they were lower than his vocals in the room, but loud enough so he could hear them even when doing his loudest shit. All I did afterwards was edit out all the space in between lyrics and it was ready for mixing. No issues with bleed or anything, any little bit that is left, occasionally there will be some, you can't hear with everything else going on anyway.

 

[cloy26]

So how many punches do you usually do? I was thinking doing the 4 bar thing because I want to avoid doing that much editing.

this is best left for someone who doesn't do quite as much editing and replacing as I do. lol. As long as you make the overheads flow, you'll be fine doing it section by section. Let me say again, this is what I have experienced, I am no pro.

 

[Trevoire520]

If you're going to be doing drums bar by bar try to get the drummer to play a bar or two running into the one you're recording so that there is still energy in the room.

If you're wanting to do vocals with the monitors blaring then you'd be best off using a dynamic. Condensers are more sensitive so tend to pick up more spill.

 

[if6was9]

I have never done vocals with a 57 as I always use my condensers, however, have you guys ever used a 57 and blared the music through speakers instead of headphones? Is that feasible? I am working with a guy right now who can't scream with headphones at all...

Wire one of your monitors out of phase, they'll cancel somewhat when they hit the mic and you won't get as much bleed. Then edit the vocals so that the bleed is minimal. Can work a charm and often is the most comfortable for a vocalist.
I had a guy in who found 1 track very hard to do with phones on. Tried it this way when he was just about to give up and nailed it in 2-3 takes. He was a great singer too

 

[AllanD]

Thanks for the vocal tips guys, I'll end up using the SM57 probably. Any more tips on the drums? I like the 2 bar before idea, it sounds like it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Fragle]

if you're worried about monitor bleed when using a condenser, just get some cheap headphones for the singer, plus your studio headphones for yourself, and mute the monitors.

i'd say definitely try both mics. use a pop filter!