- May 9, 2006
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Recording heavy guitars using condensor ?
- Thread starter jangoux
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The Shrink
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- Jun 18, 2007
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Do you know that for a fact? two 57s Fredman style are great, but don't sound like his records.
I personally use a ADK51S and it works great, I also have a AKG 414 and sounds cool too, but it can't take so much SPL as the 51S. I don't think Tue will use the 414 for The Haunted's new album.
I place it standard "one inch off center of the cone".
Well, I've seen some pretty awful setups get really good results. So even though he's saying he's "tried every mic position", I was curious to see the positions that he is using. The only thing I can think of is try to get the driest, most direct sound possible using absorption around the cabinet. I'll try to find a pic, but Shane (Kazrog, from BackMask) has a pic of the recording setup he did for the last BM album where he basically enclosed the cabinet in panels with foam covering them. I have used condensors in the past with great results, blended in with a 57, never by themself though. The only time that I choose to use a condensor as the only mic is when mic'ing the cab for leads. It seems to help the solo guitar stand out easier, and mix in with the 57's being used for the rhythm tracks. The BM pic is basically an iso cabinet at heart, but it's just plywood panels with foam, you could try that and maybe spend about $50 altogether. Or just get somebody, like myself, to reamp the tracks for you if you just think it's a lost cause in the space you have available to you.
I would reamp for free, you seem pretty frustrated about the situation.
~006
I would reamp for free, you seem pretty frustrated about the situation.
~006
Absolutely. Its what comes out the studio monitors that counts. No mic is flat and its freq plot will actually alter as you move it. No one can say--"it doesnt sound like he is using a condensor on this or that". There is no way you can tell because you dont know what the head settings were(I usually boost the bass more when using a condensor) or where it was placed.
The main reason dynamics are used is because of what they do to the lowend. Many people want some capsule saturation. They also crunch up the sound a bit more. It just a tighter sound because the mic cant handle the the full bandwidth of what its being exposed to.
But you can get a real hi-fi sound if you use both you just have to watch out for real fizzy sounds because you dont want to bring out the detail of fizz
Let me also add..I dont come here a lot but you guys are just great. There are not a lot of places where people actually know what they are talking about and its a pleasure.
everybody's x
My name is Damage
I talked to Shirt, 9.0 live is 2 4050's on one guitar (peudo fredman-style), and one of those AT dual element jobbies on the other guitar. Colin did not reamp it.
The new Diamond Head album is 4050's too.
The new Diamond Head album is 4050's too.
- May 9, 2006
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Well, actually i recorded it with a Sm57 AND the AT4047. The Sm57 alone sounds like crap, too boxy, too much hi mids, and too much stuff going around 300hz (which probably tells me i have acoustic problems..). Also it is too hard to fit on the mix because it gets either too loud, too quiet or too trebly/thin. I usually also have to cut a lot of low mids or else it will sound too distant.
I just tried the AT4047 once, and not actually on a real mix (i recorded over a client's song) and it imediattely made the GOOD low mids come forward, so it's way easier to make the song work. The Sm57 brings the hi mids and punch it lacks.
I mic'ed my cab with the SM57 on the middle of the dustcap (about, maybe 3 feet away) and the 4047 just at the side, pointing at the outer side of the dustcap ,with the capsules aligned. I tried every damn position, and unlike when using two dynamics, whose phase invertion brings a lot of fizz and a little bit of mud, with those two mics, besides a little bit of fizz, a good amount of low mids also come. So, maybe it cancels some of the mud i get on my mids with a dynamics-only setup.
Anyway, i'll be recording guitars on wednesday, and i'll take some pics and record some samples so you guys can listend a little bit.
I just tried the AT4047 once, and not actually on a real mix (i recorded over a client's song) and it imediattely made the GOOD low mids come forward, so it's way easier to make the song work. The Sm57 brings the hi mids and punch it lacks.
I mic'ed my cab with the SM57 on the middle of the dustcap (about, maybe 3 feet away) and the 4047 just at the side, pointing at the outer side of the dustcap ,with the capsules aligned. I tried every damn position, and unlike when using two dynamics, whose phase invertion brings a lot of fizz and a little bit of mud, with those two mics, besides a little bit of fizz, a good amount of low mids also come. So, maybe it cancels some of the mud i get on my mids with a dynamics-only setup.
Anyway, i'll be recording guitars on wednesday, and i'll take some pics and record some samples so you guys can listend a little bit.
JeffTD
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BINGO BANGO HERE'S YOUR PROBLEM!
Stick that fucker like half an inch from the grill, even in the same position!
everybody's x
My name is Damage
jangoux said:
I know that the general rule with recording is that there aren't really any rules...but that placement is completely wrong homie. This is exactly why I asked for pictures of your placement. Everything you describe that you don't like about the sound is caused by improper placement. The first problem is that it is wayyyy too far away from the speaker. If you put the mic right on the grill, or a half-inch away, the sound will improve immediately. Also, instead of placing it right over the cap, put it at the edge of the dustcap where it meets the cone, you will have a much better balanced sound. I bet you anything. In fact, I'll record a few clips tonight with different positions and pictures so you can actually hear and see what the different positions give you.
jangoux said:
I think that would be a really good idea, it would help us help you a lot more than we can with just you describing whats going on.
~006
deathtotaliban
Member
even then 3 inches is too far, i pretty much put mine as close to the cloth as possible without touching it. but as far as the condensers go placement can vary extremely for them.
Wasn't able to record clips last night, had to do final mix on a project. But yeah, 3 inches is still too far man. I will get some clips and pics ASAP, I've been meaning to do it anyway.
~006
~006
everybody's x
My name is Damage
- May 9, 2006
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One mic on each speaker ? Any phase problems with that?
Well, i tried some stuff today, one of them was putting the mic as close to the speaker as possible (my 4x12 has no grill yet), and I got way better results. However, I had to dial too much treble and almost no bass to achieve a usable tone. Otherwise, it sounded like mud or too mid rangy.
Since i wasnt satisfied i didnt keep any of the recordings, but as soon as I have some spare time, I will try some stuff more seriously.
Well, i tried some stuff today, one of them was putting the mic as close to the speaker as possible (my 4x12 has no grill yet), and I got way better results. However, I had to dial too much treble and almost no bass to achieve a usable tone. Otherwise, it sounded like mud or too mid rangy.
Since i wasnt satisfied i didnt keep any of the recordings, but as soon as I have some spare time, I will try some stuff more seriously.
everybody's x
My name is Damage
- May 9, 2006
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Well, it´s a Mesa Boogie-sized one with V30s and G12T75s i had someone make for me. But I am sure that´s not the problem as it sounds awesome on the room and i have buddies with similar setups that recorded just fine.
Ill try to record something this afternoon to post here. That will be better to make you guys understand exactly my problems.
Ill try to record something this afternoon to post here. That will be better to make you guys understand exactly my problems.
here's a typical setup (for me anyway)
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clips? pretty much everything on my site
I use the same setup aswell!
