Recording/Mixing Hardcore Vocals

[SirKnucklesmd]

I posted this question a while ago in another forum and didn't get much feedback. I figure this is probably the better place to go with a question like this anyhow. The question went as follows:
I'm surprised no ones been able to answer this question more thoroughly on the interweb any where, or maybe I'm just not seeing it, but my question is what is a good and proper initial set up when preparing to track a metalcore vocalist. His range is very wide from, As I lay dying type yelling to mid range Randy Blythe style singing to gutteral deathcore grunts. The VU meters on my pre will be dancing on the red then barely show a reading given the wide dynamic range. Whats the best way to tackle this beast?

I was thinking of going with the Sm7b into either my ART MPAII pre or ISA 828, which i have for drums, simply b/c its a much higher quality pre... or maybe even go in through the 003 rack? As for compression, I don't think any one compressor I have is going to be enough to bring up those soft low growls. This bastard needs to be compressed 6 ways from sunday. I have a dbx 160a or the ART VLA's that I could run through first and then compress THAT with a plugin compressor as well. As for EQ when you stand in my iso booth and yell into the sm7 it sounds very muffled and... bland. Should I be sucking out a tone of low mid range to give it some edge? What about the use of a multiband compressor instead of eq? And do any producers add chorus or even some light AIR distortion to them eventually, perhaps in mix? Alot of possible ways to go about this that i'm not too keen on. Suggestions from the people who have experience in this kind of recording would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Lucas D'Angelo]

First I think the SM7b, if plugged into a nice preamp,probably shouldn't need too much EQ, because if it does then you chose the wrong mic at first

I can see how the dynamics can be a big problem.... Compression when recording is a good solution, assuming you really like the sound of the compressor you've got... ( I personally LOVE 1176 style compressors for that use - but i'm pretty sure the dbx can sound great ! ) I'd do it everytime If I could
But if you're not sure about your compression at that point, maybe it's best not to use any before the mix

But anyway you say that even with compression the really low grunts aren't recorded loud enough. Your vocalist should probably try to work on his overall levels (coz, even with compression, he's gonna need to sound good live at some point ) But anyway what I usually do is I record the different vocal "styles" separatly with different gain settings ! For example i'll start with all the low-range vocals on all the songs (or even all the songs ! ) , then i'll do the mid ones with a different setting etc (or the other way round !)

 

[tempe]

The vocalist either needs to get his mic technique sorted, or you're going to have to track each bit separately. With at least reasonable mic technique he should be able to level himself out a bit.

Another thing is where you place the pop filter, which I would still do with an SM7b not for controlling breaths and pops, but for making sure the vocalist doesn't get to close which is probably whats causing this dynamic range issue. Make him go back from the mic a little bit. You'll probably find that hes trying to track an inch from the mic for the low growls and the yelling stuff.

 

[JamesNorman]

I track every line separately, for each section and voice, so I'll do all the loud screams, then do all the mid range, then I'd do all the gutturals! Change your Gain on the pre everytime. Easy.

 

[Tamarocker88]

I track every line separately, for each section and voice, so I'll do all the loud screams, then do all the mid range, then I'd do all the gutturals! Change your Gain on the pre everytime. Easy.

I haven't done any vocal tracking yet, but that's the way I've seen it done. That way you can easily control the levels of varying sounds and add compressors / EQ when necessary (if at all).

 

[SirKnucklesmd]

awesome, i'll take the advice about the tracking the seperate styles on different tracks. I also have a couple other mics in my arsenal to chose from, Nuemann KMS 104, NT1A, Beta 58, Audio Technica CM7... I just heard that 99% of these vocals were done on an sm7 and can come out great. So when going into mix with this, i'm pretty sure I wanna keep him in compression the whole time, what's the ideal compression setting for that? and there's gotta be something done to the eq to suck out that boomy muffled matress infront of his face... Is it more about boosting or subtracting with vocals? Any magic plugins to bring it to the front?

 

[Toxic_Lord]

Hi!


Do the next for hardcore vocals:

Mic ---> preamp with normal gain ( singing at a normal volume ) -> Analog 5 input (for example) on your 003 -> create an Aux Mono Track on ProTools, on the input of this track, select Analog 5, on the output, select Bus 1 -> Now Create an Audio Mono Track, on the input select Bus 1, output to your Master bus.

Ok, now insert a normal/hard Limiter on the Aux Channel. Record now!

The mic signal pass through the limiter, and the audio track will be recorded limited. Your track never will peak!

If you put the Limiter directly on the audio track, it does not work. ( try to understand why )

I do this for record Grindcore singers, is the best way to record this "pigs"!! uke:

Thrash!

 

[sawtooth]

Hi!


Do the next for hardcore vocals:

Mic ---> preamp with normal gain ( singing at a normal volume ) -> Analog 5 input (for example) on your 003 -> create an Aux Mono Track on ProTools, on the input of this track, select Analog 5, on the output, select Bus 1 -> Now Create an Audio Mono Track, on the input select Bus 1, output to your Master bus.

Ok, now insert a normal/hard Limiter on the Aux Channel. Record now!

The mic signal pass through the limiter, and the audio track will be recorded limited. Your track never will peak!

If you put the Limiter directly on the audio track, it does not work. ( try to understand why )

I do this for record Grindcore singers, is the best way to record this "pigs"!!

Thrash!

If recording properly in the digital domain at 0dbvu = -18dbfs you won't peak anyway. If you are approaching red easily you are recording WAY too hot. Make sure you leave way more headroom, you don't need to track that loud in the 24bit digital domain.

 

[Toxic_Lord]

ok

 

[koalamo]

Hi!

Do the next for hardcore vocals:

Mic ---> preamp with normal gain ( singing at a normal volume ) -> Analog 5 input (for example) on your 003 -> create an Aux Mono Track on ProTools, on the input of this track, select Analog 5, on the output, select Bus 1 -> Now Create an Audio Mono Track, on the input select Bus 1, output to your Master bus.

Ok, now insert a normal/hard Limiter on the Aux Channel. Record now!

The mic signal pass through the limiter, and the audio track will be recorded limited. Your track never will peak!

If you put the Limiter directly on the audio track, it does not work. ( try to understand why )

I do this for record Grindcore singers, is the best way to record this "pigs"!! uke:

Thrash!

That's pointless because if your going in the red on your meters in protools your probably already clipping the fuck out of your converters best to just split up the highs and lows and gain each separately or use a transparent hardware compressor for leveling I would assume?

 

[Toxic_Lord]

I use it only as a preventive method to prevent a peak on a good take!


i take good levels ( −18 dBFS ) always! But, you never know...

And.. i never clipp on PT!

 

[AD Chaos]

Nice thread

^ Win


^^ Fail​

 

[The Front Studio]

I track every line separately, for each section and voice, so I'll do all the loud screams, then do all the mid range, then I'd do all the gutturals! Change your Gain on the pre everytime. Easy.

^^ THIS +1K

 

[ahjteam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8PDdoh5cM4
^ Win

Rage @ 1:05

Yeah, even tho the guy clearly is a professional studio engineer, he clearly isn't a professional live engineer. try going more than 3 inches (which is about 4 fingers width) away from the grille live on a dynamic mic with a rock band, and/or:

- the vocals will pretty much dissappear

OR

- the mic will become really feedback sensitive at usable levels and it will capture the rest of the band around the singer really loud

But it has a truth to it and about 1-2 fingers away from the mic is good imho. the really experienced singers with good voice have so much louder voice and superior microphone technique that they actually know what distance to use.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338211/mic_distance.mp3

 

[bryan_kilco]

try going more than 3 inches (which is about 4 fingers width) away

My fingers must be extremely skinny then!!

 

[AEL89]

That suggestion about routing your track through an aux with a limiter is pointless - you need to control the level before its converted so either lower the gain or use a compressor before it gets converted.

My number one tip for vocals - be super careful of proximity effect.

 

[AD Chaos]

try going more than 3 inches (which is about 4 fingers width) away from the grille live on a dynamic mic with a rock band, and/or:

- the vocals will pretty much dissappear

OR

- the mic will become really feedback sensitive at usable levels and it will capture the rest of the band around the singer really loud

Yeah I was just thinking the same.. it's all common sense, really

 

[ahjteam]

My fingers must be extremely skinny then!!

3" = 7.62cm

 

[Tommy Gun]

I use comp on the way in and more in the mixing stage. While tracking it's usually 4:1, 6-8db reduction, medium attack, auto-release. Then add a good comp in the mix, settings to taste.

 

[jimwilbourne]

To The OP:
I'm thinking about getting a ART MPA II
how's that treating you for vocals? did you change the tubes?

as for your solutions, you're definitely gonna want to split each scream "type" into different tracks. if the vocalist knows which goes wear, it should be a pretty simple process and will actually help keep his vocals a lot more consistent.

I've found that some vocalists just sound really muffled. I feel like it has a lot to do with technique.
I'm a vocalist myself & I tend to sound roughly the same regardless of the mic I use. I never sound muffled.

I recently tracked a vocalist that sounded muffled. I just got rid of some of the offending freq and genitally boosted what sounded good in his voice.

as far as distance from the mic: I use a pop filter. so I line it up about 4 fingers away from the mic and then tell the vocalist to sing about the same distance from the filter as the filter is from the mic. I get the best results that way.
but then I don't use a dynamic for metalcore vocals currently. so for a sm7b different rules will apply.