relative kick and snare levels in Andy's mixes?

[everybody's x]

OK, I mostly mix, write, record hard rock stuff but have been working on more and more metal. Obviously I use andy's mixes as a reference point.

Generally (and i know there are no "rules") I mix with the kick hitting somewhere around -4to -6, snare I try to keep around -2

then say....
vocal buss around -9
gtrs -10
bass -12

again drum buss generally peaking at -2 with the snare forward.

It seems in listening to Andys stuff that the kick and snare roles are reversed?

snare takes a back seat to kick?

It is hard to tell where he puts it pre mastering, but when I get my levels up that seem comparable, mix it down and run it through my pseudo-mastering process, I lose the kick a bit , get way too much snare,and the kick is just not dominating like a killer metal mix should.

I don't suppose there are any pre-mastered clips laying around we could check out? That would kick butt

but anyway, where do you like your kick and snare in the mix at mixdown?

Thanks
-dave

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

I do notice that Andys snare's are quiter then I would expect. But it works. I guess it works because they're mixed well enough that it doesn't have to be loud to cut through.

 

[Torniojaws]

again drum buss generally peaking at -2 with the snare forward.

It seems in listening to Andys stuff that the kick and snare roles are reversed?

I would say it's more perceptual, as at least the newest Arch Enemy CD has a lot of reverb on the snare. Reverb by nature makes things less in-your-face (read: makes it sound more distant, or quiet than normal).

 

[_RiseInside_]

i think i have an unmastered version of killswitch engage´s lastest album but i have to search where it is.

 

[everybody's x]

I'd love to hear that

 

[cobhc]

I would say it's more perceptual, as at least the newest Arch Enemy CD has a lot of reverb on the snare. Reverb by nature makes things less in-your-face (read: makes it sound more distant, or quiet than normal).

i've always thought reverb seperates things in a mix more.

 

[everybody's x]

I wil have some verb on the snare with about a 40 milisecond predelay to get the attack to poke through, and the drum buss will have some on it.

the trick I think is to know what mastering is going to do to it. I am loving the mix before it gets shelved and squashed

 

[chadsxe]

I wil have some verb on the snare with about a 40 milisecond predelay to get the attack to poke through, and the drum buss will have some on it.

the trick I think is to know what mastering is going to do to it. I am loving the mix before it gets shelved and squashed

Or getting it masterd by someone who is not going to destroy it.

 

[everybody's x]

that would be ideal of course, but at the level I am working at, the bands barely have enough to cover tracking and mastering is an afterthought, let alone "good mastering"

 

[chadsxe]

that would be ideal of course, but at the level I am working at, the bands barely have enough to cover tracking and mastering is an afterthought, let alone "good mastering"

I hear ya. It is sometimes next to impossible to explain to someone what mastering does.

 

[Torniojaws]

i've always thought reverb seperates things in a mix more.

Make a drumline, guitarline or whatever, and add reverb to it. Listen to it for a while (say, 15 seconds). Now, take off the reverb. Which one sounds louder and clearer to you?

 

[cobhc]

Make a drumline, guitarline or whatever, and add reverb to it. Listen to it for a while (say, 15 seconds). Now, take off the reverb. Which one sounds louder and clearer to you?

yes, but reverb can also add space to something to seperate it in the mix.

 

[Torniojaws]

yes, but reverb can also add space to something to seperate it in the mix.

In a busy mix/fast song, it only makes it "fade away"

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

Reverb can seperate and it seems to me this that it works by adding another dimension to the sound. You have left and right up and down (treble bass) and near and far. You can kind of do near and far with volume but it's a different effect. more like a whisper then say, someone yelling at you from the other side of a stadium.

 

[006]

wha?

~006

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

maybe not.

 

[everybody's x]

so where do you guys have your kick and snare peaking relative to the mix?


damnit

 

[Keiffer]

again drum buss generally peaking at -2 with the snare forward.

dave, peak levels are virtually meaningless related to avg and perceived level.... they just can't be counted on for any meaningful metering. you can chop the top off of every kick hit with very little to no drop in perceived level and then raise the overall level to the same peak with a significant increase in volume.

consider using RMS or VU instead.

for shits and grins, try this if you haven't already, line up four compressors with each: Attk: 30ms: Rel: 15 to 50ms Ratio: ~ 2:1 Makeup:1db and adjust Threshold for about 1db compression. You're getting about 4db of compression but no one compressor is working very hard. This is a great way to raise level with virtually no side-effects. This also works great with very long Attk (120ms) and Release (1500ms) times on your Stereo Buss and just before a limiter...

kp-

 

[A Toolish Circle]

^^ but what do u run thru the compressors ??

everything ??


and do u mean 4 group compressors or 4 compressors in line on one group channel ?

 

[Keiffer]

4 in a line (serial)

this is a nicer/gentler way of leveling.

you can try two or three... the goal is to spread the compressing across several compressors... each carrying a liter load.

this can really work well on the stereo buss... glueing the mix much better than one compressor's ability

additionally, two compressors in line with the first set to a Fast Attk and Release to tame the peak followed by a Slow Attk and Release to taste to manage the body. good for drums