reparations: awesome or totally gay?

[waif]

The answer is, bad idea. Wouldn't have any real effect, you can't really put a monetary value on generations of suffering, but most importantly:
the people who would owe this reparation are dead; it would be government money that comes from taxes payed by everyone, including the people who'd be getting it.
the people who would receive this reparation are dead; somebody probably did something shitty to my ancestors that resulted in me not being the heir to a massive fortune, but I'm not complaining.

De-shittifying inner city public schools would probably be the best way to achieve this. Renovate and beautify them, increase police presence, give them decent teachers, and fund extracurricular activities. I think that's the best sort of reparation blacks could hope to get.

Everyone is familiar with the expression "if you give a beggar a fish he will eat for a day, if you teach him to fish he will something or other." It applies here. A check wouldn't help them in the long run; if that check were instead given to the schools, you'd see some long-run effect.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Schools don't spend the money they get correctly, though.

 

[waif]

Nothing's ever perfect.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

When the main thing done to help the situation is not at all even close to working esp. in places I've seen it done (i.e. my home city), that's a pretty big problemo.

 

[MasterOLightning]

Giving money to schools doesn't help. We live in a world where jobs require much more specialized education or certification than they used to. It doesn't matter how good your grade school or high school was if you don't have a college degree, and for any kind of professional work you likely need to have internships or post-graduate studies. Or just the right connections, which these people don't have. Let's say a black student works through high school and gets a significant amount of scholarship money for college. She still might have to work an extra job during school, and she still can't afford to move to New York and take an unpaid internship in the summer. Stuff like that keeps people down if they don't come from money. Extra funding should be made available for low income families that they can use for things like books and food at college. Expenses go much deeper than tuition, which a lot of schools do a good job of helping out with. Better loan programs for grad school are probably a good idea too.

 

[skeptik]

The people who are most suffering are those are aren't even going to college, who have no interest in going to college. Part of the change that is needed is a cultural rehabilitation program, and this necessitates funding for improving schools. This needs to be done the right way, and we all know it's never done the right way. We can't "throw money at schools." We need to do real and foundational things to change the way that these schools operate. And we need to change the message that these kids receive from their role models, which, let's face it, is largely from the hip hop culture. These things perpetuate a cycle of indifference to poverty, to the point where some consider it a badge of honor. Do you really think you can change this without changing the way the schools work? You can't abandon the majority and focus only on those with the ambition to make it to college.

 

[MasterOLightning]

I don't know enough about education reform to suggest something that would bring about such a cultural shift. Doing more to enable people driven to succeed seems like a start.

Educators are a remarkably stubborn bunch, so getting them to change is tough. Opening up funding seems easier. A lot of universities are sitting on massive endowments, and raising tuition at the moment rather than using their funds to ride out the tough times. A few strong mandates could free up extra endowment funds for needy students. This will be much more achievable than a massive overhaul of primary or secondary education.

 

[Dak]

The TMQ at ESPN pointed out that more money is donated to Harvard every year than hundreds of smaller schools combined, and Harvard just sits on most of it. What a waste.

 

[Zephyrus]

So they can pay for my grad school scholarship.

 

[AchrisK]

I don't think that black people today should get reparations for slavery. I think that we should be cognizant of the circumstances in today's environment that are a result of a history of slavery and see to it that they are treated equitably today...

I disagree with this implication that racism stems from a history of slave ownership. Yes it reinforced racism among those living during that time, and potentially some of their offspring. But today racism in the USA is not based in the past slavery of Africans.

I think this, along with the fact of "who is Smith" and "who is Jones" makes reparations an obsolete idea in the USA today.

 

[Zephyrus]

Making reparations reasserts our differences, and reinforces the sense of guilt that has discouraged Whites from looking Black people in the eye and saying smiling to acknowledge their existence. Reparations should only come in the form of a change in our attitudes and eliminate the social awkwardness of an integrated culture.

 

[AchrisK]

Making reparations reasserts our differences, and reinforces the sense of guilt that has discouraged Whites from looking Black people in the eye and saying smiling to acknowledge their existence. Reparations should only come in the form of a change in our attitudes and eliminate the social awkwardness of an integrated culture.

Wow, isn't that crazy? What you say is true, though. For me, I feel especially compelled to look black people in the eye and acknowledge them. I mean, it's not like I don't typically make an effort to acknowledge all people, but it seems especially important to me to acknowledge black people.

 

[Zephyrus]

Stereotypes are very pervasive in the unconscious. For many, the very sight of a group of Black people brings about a gut reaction to avoid, which must be consciously suppressed. So long as we can't just naturally be as receptive to other races as we are to our own, this veil (as Du Bois terms it) will divide society.

 

[Cythraul]

I made a really insightful post about black people in here yesterday and now it's gone. WTF?

 

[skeptik]

I disagree with this implication that racism stems from a history of slave ownership. Yes it reinforced racism among those living during that time, and potentially some of their offspring. But today racism in the USA is not based in the past slavery of Africans.

I think this, along with the fact of "who is Smith" and "who is Jones" makes reparations an obsolete idea in the USA today.

Who said racism stems from slavery? Racism is what made slavery possible.

Although, it actually is true that racism stems from slavery to some degree. Do you really think the single largest cross-racial American atrocity would not contribute toward feelings of animosity between said races? It's ridiculous to think that it doesn't have an impact, so I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with your statement that "today racism in the USA is not based in the past slavery of Africans." Of course black people have negative feelings toward white people because of slavery, and vice versa.

 

[Dak]

Of course black people have negative feelings toward white people because of slavery, and vice versa.

Uh, no.

 

[Zephyrus]

I don't think it's so much slavery as it is the conditions that ex-slaves were left in, which for the most part have perpetuated to the present day. If ex-slaves are bitterly poor, uneducated, and forced to steal to stay alive, after a few decades that won't change, despite the next generations never having been slaves. And thus they are still perceived in that role.

 

[skeptik]

Uh, no.

Uh, yes. There are some white people who still think they should be allowed to keep blacks as slaves.

 

[youdontknowme]

There are a lot more poor white people than Black people.

@ Virus-Granty

there are more white people in America than black people period.

Absolutely not, in no way shape or form. They are given enough handouts as it is.

agreed.

 

[AchrisK]

Who said racism stems from slavery....

OK, I took your "circumstances" as racism. I can now see that you meant much more than that.

Uh, yes. There are some white people who still think they should be allowed to keep blacks as slaves.

But this doesn't stem from the fact that blacks were slaves. It stems from the view these white people have that blacks are inferior to them. It is the same view that allowed slavery of Africans to start here (or wherever). The fact that blacks have been slaves in the US only focuses the mind of the already racist non-black toward that option. The fact that they were slaves is not what causes these racist people to be racist.

But I totally concede the point about slavery being a cause of racism in black towards whites. I overlooked that in my other post.

It seems to be that:

Racism in people X toward people Y causes slavery of people Y. Slavery of people Y by people X causes racism in people Y toward people X.