reparations: awesome or totally gay?

[skeptik]

You don't think white people don't resent the fact that black people resisted slavery, fought against and killed their owners, escaped their owners when they were considered property, had sex with their women, and generally hated white people? You need to add "Racism of people Y toward people X caused by slavery of people Y by people X contributes further toward the racism of people X toward people Y."

 

[AchrisK]

Maybe during slavery and immediately afterwords. But now? I have a hard time seeing that on any significant level.

 

[skeptik]

If you break it down, it's more clear. First, take "Racism of people Y toward people X contributes further toward the racism of people X toward people Y." That seems intuitively obvious enough to me. These people are racist against me, so that might make me feel racist against them. Then we're just left with what you already stated, which is "Slavery of people Y by people X causes racism in people Y toward people X." If both of these smaller claims independently are true, then the larger claim is also true.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

(by the transitive property)

 

[waif]

Who said racism stems from slavery? Racism is what made slavery possible.

I'm pretty sure racism was a justification of slavery. The first blacks in America came as indentured servants and were allowed to become free. They had more rights than the natives iirc, and some of them actually owned white indentured servants. This was very early on, when there were only a few and their legal status was ambiguous. Later for ECONOMIC reasons the white servant-owning interests who were in charge made it so they were slaves for life. Then came racism.

 

[AchrisK]

If you break it down, it's more clear. First, take "Racism of people Y toward people X contributes further toward the racism of people X toward people Y." That seems intuitively obvious enough to me. These people are racist against me, so that might make me feel racist against them. Then we're just left with what you already stated, which is "Slavery of people Y by people X causes racism in people Y toward people X." If both of these smaller claims independently are true, then the larger claim is also true.

Ok, I will give that to you, but it is an indirect cause of racism in people X (whitey, in this case).

 

[skeptik]

I'm pretty sure racism was a justification of slavery. The first blacks in America came as indentured servants and were allowed to become free. They had more rights than the natives iirc, and some of them actually owned white indentured servants. This was very early on, when there were only a few and their legal status was ambiguous. Later for ECONOMIC reasons the white servant-owning interests who were in charge made it so they were slaves for life. Then came racism.

lol

Do you really think racism didn't exist before we decided to make black people slaves?

 

[waif]

I'm saying that the pervasive, crippling, dehumanizing racism came later. Of course there was racism before, but not the sort that allows you to enslave people; it was closer to the racism displayed towards the Indians.

 

[skeptik]

If the racism that allows one to enslave another didn't already exist, then it wouldn't have happened. Just stop being ridiculous. The British and colonists didn't refrain from enslaving Africans earlier than they had because they didn't have the racism required, but because it wasn't necessary. I would like you to attempt to actually support your hypothesis though, that should be funny to read. As far as I'm aware, people don't enslave other people just because they're really really racist, but because they have a need for the labor, so to suggest that they didn't have the racism required to enslave blacks earlier than the point where they actually decided to enslave them is fairly specious.

Either way, I can't even remember, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't even have any relevance to what we were talking about.

 

[waif]

What you don't understand is that there was already a system of near-slavery existing (indentured servitude), from which slavery arose. The point is that it was a small step from indentured servitude to having indentured servants who have ambiguous legal status and just not letting them go. But you need to justify that. Why would you do that? Oh, that's right, because they're subhuman my pals.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

We are not responsible for what our fathers have done. Whether good or bad. You can't be blamed for your families history, just like you can't be too proud of it.

It all revolves around I,Us and Now!

The past is a funeral.

 

[skeptik]

What you don't understand is that there was already a system of near-slavery existing (indentured servitude), from which slavery arose. The point is that it was a small step from indentured servitude to having indentured servants who have ambiguous legal status and just not letting them go. But you need to justify that. Why would you do that? Oh, that's right, because they're subhuman my pals.

Are you seriously questioning my knowledge of basic facts about American history? Do you honestly think I was not aware of indentured servitude? You've got some nerve, to be quite honest. Of course racism was a justification for slavery, but to suggest that they suddenly were even more racist because they had an economic need that 'required' a massive unpaid labor force is completely unfounded. They held no less racist views before slavery than during. Their racism just happened to coincide with an economic need at that point. They didn't need to make up a justification because they already had a justification. They just didn't need to engage in slavery before then.

 

[S.U.A.D.]

I'm part Irish and I am demanding reperations from countless injustices commited unto my race for centuries. NOT.

Reperations is a bullshit political cashgrab, no one today was a slave, and in my personal opinion everyone needs to move past that and live in today. Haning on the past leaves us in the past. On top of that, who pays reperations? People today who had no part of slavery? That's ridiculous, and equal to someone saying "well I was robbed at gunpoint by a black man, and so I'm going to tell another black man who is innocent to pay for it".

Just my 2 cents.

 

[MasterOLightning]

But it's not just about slavery.

 

[S.U.A.D.]

Nevertheless.

 

[MasterOLightning]

Uh, no.

 

[Omni]

My family didn't do anything bad to black people, so I couldn't care less about this crap. Reparations don't really fix anything anyway.

 

[S.U.A.D.]

Uh, no.

You mention past offenses like they mean something today. They don't. Blacks have every opportunity today that whites have, and that's the long and short of it. Once more, the past is the past. Nothing personal to you or anyone else, but I really HATE when people try to fall back on the "woe is ME because my RACE was discriminated against or otherwise wronged". There is not a single race that has not been persecuted in one shape or another throughout history. What makes blacks so special?

 

[skeptik]

Blacks have every opportunity today that whites have, and that's the long and short of it.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[MasterOLightning]

Oh my god, that's the worst post I've ever seen on the internet.