Request for a Marshall education

[Metaltastic]

Well, I never gave Marshalls much though, but after seeing you guys here pick up some older ones and rave about them, I guess it's about time I see what they're all about. Before I even consider picking one up, though, I'd appreciate a little guidance as to what all the differences are between models. I hear about 2203's and 2204's, JCM 800's with EL34's or 6550's, old JMP's, not-so-old JMP's, JCM 900's that suck and those that don't, etc.

So basically, if I could get a run down of every Marshall that rules and every Marshall that sucks the nuts, and why, I'd greatly appreciate it! (shouldn't be that big of a feat, I'd hope, given that I could do a pretty good job of doing the same for Mesa over the years, for example)

Thanks dudes!

 

[Exocaster]

1959 and 1987- Superleads. Often just get referred to as "Plexis", even though Plexi refers to the early models with the plexiglass control panel. Rated at 100 watts and 50 watts respectively. (Though they're really putting out much more than that turned up.) Massive transformers, louder than all shit. 4 inputs, no master volume, so you need to crank it to get any gain whatsoever. Jumping the channels together gets you a bit more gain. Classic rock tones- Hendrix, Zeppelin, Van Halen, etc.

Superbass- I forget the model number. Originally meant as a bass amp; lots of people use them for guitar. A thicker, darker-voiced version of the Superlead. A cranked Superbass with the channels jumpered is the basis of Tool's tone. (Adam Jones' Superbass is modded slightly- the channels are jumpered internally, and he mixes it with other amps, but the cranked Superbass is the base of that tone.)

JMP 2203 and 2204- their first master volume amps. These were designed in the early '70s, so the master volumes aren't that great, and they're still obscenely loud. 100 watts and 50 watts respectively again. A little gainier than the Superlead/Superbass, maybe a bit brighter. You still need to turn up to get them to sound their best.

JCM 800 2203 and 2204- basically the same as the JMPs with the same model number. Some component changes throughout their production made later models brighter and gainier still.

JCM 800 2205 and 2210- channel switchers, with a mid gain and high gain channel. Still retardedly loud. These have effects loops. There's a diode gain stage on the high gain channel, basically a built-in tubescreamer, but only cork sniffers seem to care. Everyone was boosting their 800s for more gain, so Marshall built the boost into the amp. Old school metal tones in a box. The general consensus seems to be the 2203 and 2204 sound a bit bigger.

Silver Jubilee- a bit of a change for Marshall. Another channel switcher, with a fatter, darker voicing than Marshall usually has. Diode gain stage on the lead channel, but again, only cork sniffers care- even less than the 2205/2210, it seems, as the Silver Jubilee is very, very highly thought of. I think the model number is 2555, but don't quote me on that. It has power options as well- 100/50 watts or something along those lines, I don't recall. Slash's amp.

JCM 900 4100 and 4500- usually regarded as "epic fail" for Marshall. This is where people hate on the diode gain stage. Has a true clean channel, but the gain is generally thought of as overly bright, thin and fizzy. Sounds better turned up. Weak transformers and nowhere near the volume of the earlier Marshalls.

JCM 900 SLX- single channel with boost. Closer to a gain modded single-channel 800 than they are to a Dual Reverb. Generally well regarded.

JCM 2000 DSL and TSL- thicker than the JCM 900s, much less fizzy. Modern channel switchers with decent options. The DSL's green channel can cop passable 800 tones, while the red is modern high gain. The TSL has seperate clean and crunch channels along with a high gain channel and power options. Good amps both, though the high gain channels are somewhat muddy compared to an old-school Marshall with a boost. (I've A/Bed them side-by-side) The TSL footswitch is prone to failure.

JVM- four channels, MIDI, tons of gain on tap. Marshall's current flagship. Generally well recived; most seem to think it's better tone-wise than the JCM 2000s.

I left out a few, like the 30th Anniversary and the Vintage Modern that I'm not horribly familiar with, but that should be a decent basic rundown.

 

[LSD-Studio]

what you want are the Mastervolume JMP or JCM 800 2203

the JMP2203 and early 800 2203 are the same amps (early mastervolume JMP had a bit better filtering in the powersection though). the 2203 are the amps you want!
2204 is the same but 50 watt...so you'll be fine with that one as well.
if you're looking for an 800 2003 get a vertical-input one, they sounds slightly better than the horizontal ones.

the marshalls that were sent to the USA had 6550 in them (due to some problems with the EL34 supply over there) European Marshalls have always had the EL34.
those can be swapped easily though...just change a grid-resistor and rebias etc...

it's difficult to find a non-modded early 2203 but if you do find one you can be sure that amp will be awesome! (just ask Gavin )

 

[53Crëw]

I like the metal panel SuperLeads (early 70's ones - Models #1959 (100w) or #1987(50w)), the JMP Master volume heads (#2203 or #2204), or the JCM800 single channel master volume heads. Drive the front end with a tube screamer, of course.

Keep in mind an amp this old may need filter caps replaced, so factor that into your budget. Also, these things are LOUD, and sound best when turned up, so a Hotplate may be in order as well. I actually sold my '73 100-watt Superlead because it was so darn loud, and used some of the money to pick up a 5150 head. But I kinda wish I had both.

Also, if you can, pull the chassis on whatever you're looking at. So many old Marshalls have been "modified" and in some cases screwed up. Look to see if the circuit board looks like it has been modified with additional components. Of course, you may find a good modified Marshall you like, and if so, that's great. Just be aware that there are a certain number of hack jobs out there. In some cases these can be returned to stock, but that's at the added expense of a techs time.

-Steve

 

[53Crëw]

Superbass- I forget the model number.

100w SuperBass is #1992 and 50 Bass is #1986.

 

[Exocaster]

Also, these things are LOUD, and sound best when turned up, so a Hotplate may be in order as well. I actually sold my '73 100-watt Superlead because it was so darn loud

Jesus H. Christ yes, this is true. My 50 watt JMP 2204 pwned everything volume-wise. I gigged with it on 2. Not 2 o'clock, 2 as is 2 of 10 on the dial. Plenty loud enough to cut with a drummer. And old Marshalls, unfortunately, do not sound anywhere near their best on 2.

For what it's worth, the master on my Mesa is around 1:00 with a band, if that gives you any idea...

 

[Flat Fifth Fury]

I'm fill in on the 30th Anniversary as I have one. It's the best amp Marshall put out between the Jubilee and the JVM. It has 3 totally separate channels, a great clean channel, a very flexible crunch channel that does a nice job of mid gain to boosted JCM800 tones, and a Lead channel that is very Jubilee/Mesa like. It is a midi switching head, the only one Marshall has made, has lots of options and two effects loops. It's a great sounding head that is very very versatile.

 

[VH100R]

the loudest amps out there are older marshalls, Hiwatt and Laney's. (not necessarily by that order)

old marshalls rule BTW.

 

[Metaltastic]

Wow guys, thank you all so much, this is exactly what I was hoping for! Now to mull over the plethora of data in here...

Oh, and VH100R, I actually had a chance to play your namesake amp at NAMM, and I gotta tell ya, I really hope something was wrong with it, because I had the gain almost maxed out on the distortion channel and it really had no balls at all; I had to beat the shit out of the strings to get any kind of saturation, and I tried a bunch of different guitars (they were all Hohners, unfortunately, cuz Hohner apparently distributes Laneys in the US). Do you think there was indeed something wrong, or is the VH100R just really not a high-gain amp?

 

[everybody's x]

Silver Jubilee- a bit of a change for Marshall. Another channel switcher, with a fatter, darker voicing than Marshall usually has. Diode gain stage on the lead channel, but again, only cork sniffers care- even less than the 2205/2210, it seems, as the Silver Jubilee is very, very highly thought of. I think the model number is 2555, but don't quote me on that. It has power options as well- 100/50 watts or something along those lines, I don't recall. Slash's amp.

I have one.
Mine is the black version from the following year, it is a JCM 50/25 MODEL 2550
I think the 2555 was the hundred watter (as you said).
Great amps, cork-sniffers be damned

 

[Razorjack]

It is a midi switching head, the only one Marshall has made

The JVM is MIDI controllable too.

 

[Radd]

My first half stack was a 100 watt Jubilee. Got it around 1990. I was young and totally immersed in the remarkable thrash scene at the time. Didn't know jack about gear except for name brands and a general idea of what those name brands the metal gods used. I just wanted to play. If only the internet like we know it now existed back then...
I of course wanted a Marshall. I figured they were all the same. A Marshall is a Marshall.

I was pretty happy with it, mainly because I got a Marshall but it didn't have enough balls so I put a DOD EQ pedal in front which helped but still not enough (didn't know about tube screamers) so I took it to a local tech to mod it for more gain. Don't know what he did but it didn't help that much.

I wish someone would have directed me towards a JCM 800 or something else but those music store guys were oblivious to thrash.

Not long after when I got really into death metal I knew it just wasn't cutting it and it had to go so I sold it.

I don't know what speakers were in that cab so that might of had something to do with it. I never played at full volume but I played it very loud often.

So in my mind/memory the Jubilee was not a good choice for metal.

Thanks for reading my little story.

 

[R-Stuur]

Thanks for reading my little story.

No pr..o...bl...ZzzzZzzZzzzZz

 

[Radd]

No pr..o...bl...ZzzzZzzZzzzZz

Bite me.

 

[Metaltastic]

Hmm, so I don't think I'd want a JMP or early 800, cuz I'd rather not have to get the thing roaring to get a useable tone out of it (and as such, there's no fucking way I'd get a 2203! Gotta go the 2204 route it would seem) - I can't deny, from your very helpful description, Exocaster, the 2205 sounds the most appealing, cuz even if there's a bit of a sacrifice in tone (and I'd imagine it's negligible), having an FX loop is pretty mandatory, and that built in boost/TS circuit and the fact that it's easier to coax high-gain out of it; well, it seems like the best choice for an amp that I wouldn't necessarily want to be a studio-only number (cuz I can't afford those luxuries these days!)

So what do you guys think? Is a 2204 800 really worth all the sacrifices in features over a 2205?

Exocaster, it was your mentioning the old-school Marshall vibe when we were talking about the Ghost Reveries tone that really set me off on this, so thanks again for the help and inspiration dude! Same to everyone else!

EDIT: Drrrooooollll...

Also, this guy says his 2205 doesn't have an FX loop; any thoughts as to why?

 

[greyskull]

2205=Rage against the machine=fuck yeah

 

[Baron of Norsworthy]

Well, I never gave Marshalls much though, but after seeing you guys here pick up some older ones and rave about them, I guess it's about time I see what they're all about. Before I even consider picking one up, though, I'd appreciate a little guidance as to what all the differences are between models. I hear about 2203's and 2204's, JCM 800's with EL34's or 6550's, old JMP's, not-so-old JMP's, JCM 900's that suck and those that don't, etc.

So basically, if I could get a run down of every Marshall that rules and every Marshall that sucks the nuts, and why, I'd greatly appreciate it! (shouldn't be that big of a feat, I'd hope, given that I could do a pretty good job of doing the same for Mesa over the years, for example)

Thanks dudes!

I have used a lot of marshalls and my fave models are the 1987 plexi 50watt and the jubilee.

The jubilee sounds dark if you put it in 50watt mode, but if you put it in 100 watt mode with a lawrence 500XL humbucker with an 10 band eq, you are in Pantera country.

 

[Torniojaws]

Here's a JCM900 SL-X 2500 clip I reamped yesterday (boosted with Digitech Bad Monkey overdrive):

http://koti.mbnet.fi/juhau/marsuexile.mp3

One performance, miced with two SM57s (on-axis, one on center dustcap, the other on the edge of the cone). Engl Vintage 2x12" cab.

 

[Fragle]

Hmm, so I don't think I'd want a JMP or early 800, cuz I'd rather not have to get the thing roaring to get a useable tone out of it (and as such, there's no fucking way I'd get a 2203! Gotta go the 2204 route it would seem) - I can't deny, from your very helpful description, Exocaster, the 2205 sounds the most appealing, cuz even if there's a bit of a sacrifice in tone (and I'd imagine it's negligible), having an FX loop is pretty mandatory, and that built in boost/TS circuit and the fact that it's easier to coax high-gain out of it; well, it seems like the best choice for an amp that I wouldn't necessarily want to be a studio-only number (cuz I can't afford those luxuries these days!)

So what do you guys think? Is a 2204 800 really worth all the sacrifices in features over a 2205?

first off, the actual volume difference between the 50 and 100w models is pretty much negligible...there IS however a noticable difference in body and fullness of the tone, with the 100w being the fuller sounding one, since the output section is just...well...bigger don't know the technical details
sure, the 50w is somewhat easier to get into poweramp saturation, but it'll still be damned loud, that's for sure.
what i'm trying to say is, whether you go for the 50 or 100w version, they both will be LOUD, but the 100w might sound a tad heavier.

as for the single vs split channel versions, well, i haven't played a single channel, but i own a 2210, and it's a great sounding head. the clean is actually usable with a nice midrangey twang, but it's not exactly loud, nor is it fender clean...duh. the boost channel rocks, though. while there are no super brootalz heavy tones to be found in there, it has enough gain for pretty much every form of metal short of total death annihilation. i used to play thrash metal going straight in with the gains around 8/10 or so. i haven't used the fx loop, so i can't comment on that. same goes for the DI out. the reverb is ok sounding...nothing out of the ordinary, but not bad either.
and as i said above, it's LOUD. and cuts through like mad. i remember shows where i was running a 212 cab as opposed to the other guitar player running a 412, and i still could hear me all over the stage. and i wasn't even playing *that* loud.
the best part of the 2210 definitely is its lead tone...it has a very nice singing quality.

 

[TheDude]

I tried the JVM 410 Head with a 1960v cab. Within an hour I could do pretty much all Marshall sounds I've ever heard. From clean to insane. A really, really nice amp IMHO. I added a TC PRE in front to boost the guitar, and man, great palm mutes for hours. Expensive though, but worth the money.