Respect Towards The Metal Scene...
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bloodeagle
New Metal Member
- Feb 2, 2007
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a lot of people seem to group metal together with punk emo shockrock etc. which annoys me immensely, but i do my best to spread the word so to speak, and promote understanding. as for those of you with religious parents, do some reading about christianity, read the bible, etc. and you'll find countless immoral statements, and inaccuracies. you might even be able to convince your parents what they're believing isn't right. i'm afraid i come from a family of devout aethiests, which gives me a... unique, perspective. i can't condemn religion without being a hypocrite, but i can condemn religion's condemnation of a wide range of groups and things. if it helps any of you out, here are some starting points in the uphill battle against ignorance:
-virtually all christian symbols are pagan in origin
-christianity condemns paganism, despite the above
-the bible was written at the council of nicea, 300 years after christ died, there were still issues with its contents, so christians fought between each other (on whether jesus was the son of god, or just a really good person)
-the bible was rewritten in the middle ages using contemporary terminology and words (hades was changed to hell)
-hell is derived from the norse "hel" and was originally applied to a refuse pit outside Jerusalem where garbage, and often sinners, were burned, it was later thought to be a magical burning lake of fire
-there are no miracles in modern times
-fancy biblical expressions are latin (because the bible originated in rome) instead of aramaic or hebrew
-the 5th commandment contradicts the universal declaration of human rights (freedom of belief)
-jesus was crucified for being arrogant, he claimed to be the son of god, which is impossible, as god has been proven to not interact on a daily basis with humans, nevermind breed with one
-immaculate conception has never taken place in a controlled lab setting
-christianity has taken more lives than nuclear weapons
theres way more, but those are just some starters
"if you can convince people of what isn't necessarily true, you can convince them to do what is not necessarily right" -me
but back to the original thread, i don't go out of my way to act different, i spout ancient history and mythology all day at school, but i get along fine with the "cool" kids, we hang out on weekends, and they respect my values and beliefs, just as i respect theirs. many people fear/dislike metalheads and "different" people because they associate them with negativity. for example, many people would think a metalhead and a hardcore punk dress the same. and they are completely different groups. but at my school, theres a small group of metalheads, and a slightly larger group of people who appreciate metal, but are not metalheads. nevertheless, out of the diehard group, i truly despise several, because they're ignorant, don't understand what they listen to (one didn't know who lady bathory is) and generally fit the negative stereotypes associated with metal. its important to remember that if you have long hair, a tshirt with a picture of someone having their entrails removed, and a scruffy (if awesome) beard, people will lump you into the category of nutcases, because all too often, they're right. if you chose to fit the stereotype, you have to accept the consequences. because metal is defined by music, and not clothing style however, it is perfectly possible to be a metalhead, and wear a business suit to work.
sorry for going on for so long
-virtually all christian symbols are pagan in origin
-christianity condemns paganism, despite the above
-the bible was written at the council of nicea, 300 years after christ died, there were still issues with its contents, so christians fought between each other (on whether jesus was the son of god, or just a really good person)
-the bible was rewritten in the middle ages using contemporary terminology and words (hades was changed to hell)
-hell is derived from the norse "hel" and was originally applied to a refuse pit outside Jerusalem where garbage, and often sinners, were burned, it was later thought to be a magical burning lake of fire
-there are no miracles in modern times
-fancy biblical expressions are latin (because the bible originated in rome) instead of aramaic or hebrew
-the 5th commandment contradicts the universal declaration of human rights (freedom of belief)
-jesus was crucified for being arrogant, he claimed to be the son of god, which is impossible, as god has been proven to not interact on a daily basis with humans, nevermind breed with one
-immaculate conception has never taken place in a controlled lab setting
-christianity has taken more lives than nuclear weapons
theres way more, but those are just some starters
"if you can convince people of what isn't necessarily true, you can convince them to do what is not necessarily right" -me
but back to the original thread, i don't go out of my way to act different, i spout ancient history and mythology all day at school, but i get along fine with the "cool" kids, we hang out on weekends, and they respect my values and beliefs, just as i respect theirs. many people fear/dislike metalheads and "different" people because they associate them with negativity. for example, many people would think a metalhead and a hardcore punk dress the same. and they are completely different groups. but at my school, theres a small group of metalheads, and a slightly larger group of people who appreciate metal, but are not metalheads. nevertheless, out of the diehard group, i truly despise several, because they're ignorant, don't understand what they listen to (one didn't know who lady bathory is) and generally fit the negative stereotypes associated with metal. its important to remember that if you have long hair, a tshirt with a picture of someone having their entrails removed, and a scruffy (if awesome) beard, people will lump you into the category of nutcases, because all too often, they're right. if you chose to fit the stereotype, you have to accept the consequences. because metal is defined by music, and not clothing style however, it is perfectly possible to be a metalhead, and wear a business suit to work.
sorry for going on for so long
Wenchmaster
Wrath of Amemait
^Wait, you're saying that if somebody who likes metal doesn't know who Lady Bathory is, they're ignorant?
.............................................................wtf? Where is the logic behind that. By listening to a certain type of music you don't have to be familiar with historical figures discussed in the music, or rather most things discussed in the music. It makes you ignorant if you for instance ignore all the lyrics, but if you generally know what the band you like sings about, then that's fine.
.............................................................wtf? Where is the logic behind that. By listening to a certain type of music you don't have to be familiar with historical figures discussed in the music, or rather most things discussed in the music. It makes you ignorant if you for instance ignore all the lyrics, but if you generally know what the band you like sings about, then that's fine.
sdmf2
Member
I think he just meant that they dont read into the concepts or origins of the bands they like. which is their own choice really
bloodeagle
New Metal Member
- Feb 2, 2007
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if you only listen to "music" (as in notes) you should be listening to instrumental, theres loads of awesome instrumental classical stuff. but if you choose to wear a bands shirt, that says "bathory" it should stand to reason you aren't so ignorant as to have no idea who a famous historical figure is, especially one whos name you have plastered across your chest. if you listen to someone talking in your ear, and you have no idea what they're saying, or what message they're trying to get across, you're only getting half the message. its like being tone deaf and listening to scales.
Wenchmaster
Wrath of Amemait
According to your definition of music (just notes) the vocals are also a part of that thus eliminating the possibility of calling anything with a vocalist instrumental. I don't know what your point was there. Then, I know loads of Bathory fans who just don't like to listen and pay attention to the lyrical aspect. What's important is that they like the music, not the lyrics. It is up to that certain individual to say what is important and what is not, because frankly you've deemed the music half as important as the lyrical content. So you're saying if you listen to a band in Norwegian or another foreign language like Asmegin, that it's stupid to listen to it that way because you have no clue what they're saying? Music is music and you take it for what it is, nobody is forcing you to pay attention to the lyrics, it's not a mandatory aspect of being a fan. And I don't see the analogy of listening to scales while being tone deaf (wth do you mean?) applying to this in any way.
bloodeagle
New Metal Member
- Feb 2, 2007
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wow. i never thought so many "smart" people could be so infernally dense.
don't split hairs, my point is this. if you don't know shit about the music you're listening to, you aren't appreciating ALL of whats going into your ears, not nessecarily a 50,50 split, but you're missing a SECTION of it. if you listen to music in a foreign language you can find a translation, but unless you learn the language you aren't getting everything the artist intended out of the song. similarly, if a person can't hear differentiation in notes, they will gain as much from listening to a scale (a bunch of different notes in order), as someone who doesn't have a clue what the vocalist is growling/singing/talking about, listening to a regular song.
instrumental = no vocals. that wasn't hard. a band with a vocalist can have an instrumental song, provided the vocalist doesn't have a part in it.
its true, you can't force someone to listen to lyrics... aside from.. i dunno, recording them in the song. but knowing what a bands NAME not means, but IS, is pretty much mandatory. Ypres is a town in belgium, and the site of a notable canadian victory during ww1. if you don't know that, you should, and now you do.
frankly i could care less how much or little a person gets out of listening to music, your'e right, if they enjoy it, thats great. but my point is, not all metal fans running around are intelligent, rational, compassionate people. some are ignorant, some are creepy, and others, are really really dense. they might for example, split hairs.
for the foreign language thing, take the song "victorious march" by amon amarth, its in swedish (or german, i don't speak either, nor can i tell them apart). unless you look at the translated lyrics, you aren't hearing words, you're hearing some dude (as badass and awesome as he may be) roaring incomprehensibly into a microphone. unless you just enjoy hearing people howl for the sake of howling, it makes the vocals redundant (spelling?).
in a 5 man band, vocals are 1/5 of the music, i wouldn't buy a cd with 2 of the 10 songs missing.
now back to the original point of this thread. if you dress as a stereotypical metalhead, expect to be lumped (in the eyes of the majority) into a category of "weirdos" of questionable intelligence. and as i said before. quite often they're right. not always, but often they are. and so as i said before, if you bang on about vegetarian rights, and why people don't respect you because you have long greasy hair or a scruffy (if awesome) beard. its because you have long greasy hair and a scruffy beard! when the standard uniform of suburbia is a polo and jeans (in canada at least), or a business suit, trimmed facial hair, and short, well maintained hair (on your head). you really can't blame the world for looking at you funny. especially if you were army boots when you aren't in the army!
unfortunately forums are restricted to voicing futile points in a sort of impossible debate, or else this point could be settled with an unbelievably badass and awesome duel. preferably with swords.
don't split hairs, my point is this. if you don't know shit about the music you're listening to, you aren't appreciating ALL of whats going into your ears, not nessecarily a 50,50 split, but you're missing a SECTION of it. if you listen to music in a foreign language you can find a translation, but unless you learn the language you aren't getting everything the artist intended out of the song. similarly, if a person can't hear differentiation in notes, they will gain as much from listening to a scale (a bunch of different notes in order), as someone who doesn't have a clue what the vocalist is growling/singing/talking about, listening to a regular song.
instrumental = no vocals. that wasn't hard. a band with a vocalist can have an instrumental song, provided the vocalist doesn't have a part in it.
its true, you can't force someone to listen to lyrics... aside from.. i dunno, recording them in the song. but knowing what a bands NAME not means, but IS, is pretty much mandatory. Ypres is a town in belgium, and the site of a notable canadian victory during ww1. if you don't know that, you should, and now you do.
frankly i could care less how much or little a person gets out of listening to music, your'e right, if they enjoy it, thats great. but my point is, not all metal fans running around are intelligent, rational, compassionate people. some are ignorant, some are creepy, and others, are really really dense. they might for example, split hairs.
for the foreign language thing, take the song "victorious march" by amon amarth, its in swedish (or german, i don't speak either, nor can i tell them apart). unless you look at the translated lyrics, you aren't hearing words, you're hearing some dude (as badass and awesome as he may be) roaring incomprehensibly into a microphone. unless you just enjoy hearing people howl for the sake of howling, it makes the vocals redundant (spelling?).
in a 5 man band, vocals are 1/5 of the music, i wouldn't buy a cd with 2 of the 10 songs missing.
now back to the original point of this thread. if you dress as a stereotypical metalhead, expect to be lumped (in the eyes of the majority) into a category of "weirdos" of questionable intelligence. and as i said before. quite often they're right. not always, but often they are. and so as i said before, if you bang on about vegetarian rights, and why people don't respect you because you have long greasy hair or a scruffy (if awesome) beard. its because you have long greasy hair and a scruffy beard! when the standard uniform of suburbia is a polo and jeans (in canada at least), or a business suit, trimmed facial hair, and short, well maintained hair (on your head). you really can't blame the world for looking at you funny. especially if you were army boots when you aren't in the army!
unfortunately forums are restricted to voicing futile points in a sort of impossible debate, or else this point could be settled with an unbelievably badass and awesome duel. preferably with swords.
bloodeagle
New Metal Member
- Feb 2, 2007
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Wenchmaster
Wrath of Amemait
I think most of what you said is given, I don't know why I even bothered to type. I think in the grand scale of things it's not really a problem. If you follow the stereotype, then you accept the fact that you are subject to criticism and ignorance that is unjust in your eyes. But if you prove to be smart, then that person's mentality might change as a result of meeting you. People just need to be made aware constantly that you can't lump everyone in a category as something (ie labelling metalheads drunk morons), but if they do, then it's more fun to act like a drunk moron on your behalf (regardless if you're actually drunk or not) to further their ignorance, and then do something intelligent shortly thereafter.
AshDLS
Huh?
Rightyo... that was big, heh. Some of it I can agree with, some I can't.
First of all, from your earlier post, I do strongly believe in the fact that people should be completely aware of something that's plastered across their chest (be it a Bathory logo or whatever). For the ridiculous number of t-shirts I own (band or otherwise), I can at least give a reason for why I've got that image/logo/text/etc across the front of it and why I support it. This is why I absolutely fucking hate all those t-shirts with nonsensical jibberish all over them.
I don't really agree with the idea of vocals being redundant if you don't understand the lyrics, the thing about tonedeaf people and scales, etc. My preferred analogy is that you can still appreciate music without having an understanding of the theory or motivation behind it, in the same way that you can enjoy the style of certain vocals without understanding the lyrics. The vast majority of the time I find the actual delivery far more emotive (or enjoyable, or entertaining, or whatever, depending on the context) than any actual lyrics, and try to ascertain the appropriate feeling simply from that.
Take a band like Wolves In The Throne Room. Bloody fantastic album, but lyrics are nowhere to be found, and it's difficult to make out what the guy is saying. What do you make of a situation like that? I really don't mind at all though... from reading their interviews I have a vague idea of what they might be on about, but in the end I just enjoy that guy screaming his head off in a rather cathartic manner.
Bah, I've been sitting on this post for too long, I'll leave it at that.
sdmf2
Member
lyrics are not very important to me, in terms of liking or disliking a band. But if they happen to have really good lyrics, like Woods of Ypres and some others, then it does make the music more enjoyable. so it is an asset, but not a neccesity in my opinion
bloodeagle
New Metal Member
- Feb 2, 2007
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fair enough all round, i dunno what wenchmasters thinking about acting like a moron, then doing something smart after... but i can see how that might catch someone by surprise. but such is the way of life i suppose, promethian messenger. i agree with ashdls that delivery is as important as the lyrics. but while sdmf listens to cannibal corpse, regardless of their lyrics, in my own opinion, what a band is roaring in your ear is important. just my thoughts. but you're all free to listen to what you wish. ashdls, i'm glad you give thought to what you plaster across your chest, its nice to see people using their brains. and down with nonsensical gibberish! it is for the weak
Wenchmaster
Wrath of Amemait
I just thought about it, that's all. That's not what I do in real life Thankfully, exploring metal makes you want to hunt down the truth, so you can't go wrong there. I'm alright with most metal song content.
Thankfully, exploring metal makes you want to hunt down the truth, so you can't go wrong there. I'm alright with most metal song content.
CaGeD iN
Wandering on Ypres Rd.
i appreciate lyrics a lot, i like lyrics almost as much as i like the song, it just makes it a lot more enjoyable because i take the lyrics a lot to heart
bloodeagle
New Metal Member
- Feb 2, 2007
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Space Cadet
Member
I agree. I don't even wear band tee's anymore, though. Music is music, fashion is fashion. Hell, I'd say I look more indie than anything, except without the super-tight clothing.
The metal scene in my area is non-existant. It used to be a decent punk scene, but now it's all really bad hardcore/metalcore. There was one band that I'd listen to, but they broke up a week or two after they put out an EP. Even if my band gets going, there still won't be much of a metal scene since it'll be more of a stoner/drone band.
BloodSword
Member
To the threadstarter, I've seen stereotyping since 64-65 when the Beatles hit the states. Adults at that time were saying look at their long hair and those clothes. Fuck, the hair wasn't even past their shoulders and they wore those godawful suits and ties. I'm probably a littel older than some here, I don't know, but this has been going on for as long as I can remember. This might help you, or you can tell me to go and fuck myself. Just remain true to yourself. Dress the way you feel is best for you, eat the way you want and listen to whatever type of music you want. As long as you are'nt hurting anyone, there should be no problem. Right!!! As adults are concerned I have a son 25 and a daughter 27 and tryed my best to raise them with a strong moral sense, to be patient and understanding of others, and most important, there are those who are/will be different than you. So, I told them unless there chasing you with an axe or shotgun, accept them and move on. Remain TRUE to yourself and what you do. Adults who are raising children today, some I've seen but not all, want to blame society, metal music, video games whatever for the demise of their children. I say FUCK ALL THAT. Stop pointing fingers and take some fuckin' responsibility for your parental actions. The easy thing to do is to blame others. Be yourself. And stay true to your own compass. Peace.
sdmf2
Member
matt schrauben
Curse You All Men!
Amen brother, Amen.
But, i never really get any shit for liking metal or wearing any metal shirts. all i can say is not to let it get to you
My main thing more so is the adult labeling. Metal guys have a harder time getting decent jobs other than music stores, guitar shops, etc. Theyre usually denied jobs in offices and such. The world views the quality man as someone with a strong tough frame, a crew cut, and clean shaven face. Its just rediculous how because we (people in the metal scene) look different, we are denied of things that we have more business doing than a lot of the people who do do them. Yes not all of use look like this, but many do.
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