Sanctuary reforming?

[J. Golden]

So far the tally from last night is Nevermore 5, Sanctuary 3. I really hope TribunalRecords likes the taste of foot. :Smug:

I'm sure Tribunal like myself often forgets how much this forum represents the metal world in a whole.

 

[J. Golden]

Thanks.

LOL. Yeah, sorry. For me, it's about the vocals. I could listen to Matt sing a grocery list. And while I enjoy Bruce, and think he's amazing singer, his sound has never really just slayed me.

Ah man your killing me. HAHA Well honestly neither would be at the top of my list.

 

[AngraRULES]

I'm sure Tribunal like myself often forgets how much this forum represents the metal world in a whole.

I think it's us who forget that the old school metalheads are the only TRUE metal fans, since only 80s metal is the real deal.

 

[J. Golden]

I think it's us who forget that the old school metalheads are the only TRUE metal fans, since only 80s metal is the real deal.

I was thinking the the same but I have learn in my older age to let the young ones discover this on their own

 

[AngraRULES]

I was thinking the the same but I have learn in my older age to let the young ones discover this on their own

Hahaha we'll get there someday.

 

[TribunalRecords]

This doesn't piss me off, it just doesn't make any sense. Somehow you equate the timing of this to somehow coincide with the new Nevermore album coming out, to somehow push the promotion of the new NM album further. Sanctuary may be better than Nevermore in the eyes of some people, but they were never and are NOT the bigger band, by a long shot. This logic equates to Glenn Tipton saying he is resurrecting the Flying Hat Band to push a new Judas Priest album.

Sanctuary broke up before they got going, so of course they aren't as big as Nevermore are. but then again, Nevermore didn't get huge right away and basically had to start over from scratch. so hats off to them, but i won't insert my foot until Sanctuary start touring and see what kind of crowds they draw over Nevermore.



also, i surely don't keep tally of scores on this board. you people are crazy. hahaha.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Conversely, IMOLTHO, I'd rank Nevermore as the finest post-80s Metal band.

Wow. That's pretty damn bold I must say. I like them but best post-80s band? I don't know about that.

I am going to say something that will piss off a LOT of people, but some of the older folks will most likely agree with....

As much as I like some NEVERMORE, the honest truth is that NEVERMORE are nu metal for metal fans afraid to say they like some "chug" in their metal.

That being said, I hope they keep the chug out of Sanctuary.

I too was around when Sanctuary first came out, and saw them on the Megadeth / Warlock tour. To be honest, I thought it was ok. It was really just about Dane's voice. The rest was decent, but nothing groundbreaking. NEver understood the hype years later. Almost seems like they got the hype, since if you are a Nevermore fan, you can earn more points by saying, "You like NM? Screw that, Sanctuary!! Old Skool dude!!!"

This shit bothers me for another reason. So here Nevermore has a new album coming out, and they have to resort to news about their former band to help push? Just like the bullshit of Megadeth and Slayer begging fans to believe their new crap albums are the "best of their careers since record XXXX" but then backing it up by going on the road performing classic albums in their entirety.

Whatevs... Peeps gotta pay the billz yo!

I typically agree with you Jason but not here. I don't see how Nevermore has anything to do with Nu Metal. They're more thrash than anything else to be perfectly honest. One of the main things in terms of nu metal is a lack of solos, which is definitely not the case with Nevermore. Another for the most part tends to be rap/hip hop elements. Definitely not the case. I wouldn't say the chug is a nu metal exclusive term.

Like Metalmilita said (God this is bizzarro forum as I'm agreeing with him again) talking about a Sanctuary reunion is in no way in relation to helping Nevermore out. However, it does piss me off a little bit because it to me means Warrel is putting some emphasis on Sanctuary when it should all be on Nevermore at the moment. It also could disrupt potential Nevermore tours, which is another thing that doesn't sit well with me.

I would say a few things...

First, I'm not sure that Chug = Nu.

Second, how many songs does Nevermore have based on Chug? If you've listened to Dreaming and came away thinking "Nu Metal", than I don't know what to say. I think the ultra crisp sound of Dead Heart shares some common ground with Nu Metal, but that ground doesn't overlap that all that widely.

Third, I have no intrinsic issue with Nu Metal, other than the overall quality of the genre. I totally love me some Lamb of God, early KSE, Trivium and Disturbed. Not sure what of that's Nu and what's not. Hard to keep track.

Finally, if Nevermore is in fact Nu Metal, than that raises that status of the Nu Metal genre, and officially makes Doom Metal's worst genre.

Umm...yeah, the only band you named really that was nu metal there is Disturbed. I think you're just confusing metalcore with nu metal is all. Metalcore at least has some decent musicianship SOMETIMES unlike nu metal which doesn't really in my opinion. Then again, in terms of popularity at the moment and such, metalcore essentially is becoming the new nu metal due to a lot of people dismissing it as metal altogether.

 

[TribunalRecords]

Calling Papa Roach or Korn a nu-metal band would be understandable. But saying that Nevermore is considered Nu-Metal by the old schoolers in my opinion just makes the old schoolers as ignorant as it gets. It brings it back to my point that a lot of the old-school folks are just too stupid to open their minds to new things. Just cause it's modern it doesn't mean it's bad. And I'm sorry if any of the old-schoolers think that way, but if they do, in my book they're just morons. (And I know you're not one of them, Jason.)

First off, us "old schoolers" remember what metal was REALLY like before pro-tools and completely FAKE performances. you'd be amazed at what can be done in a studio today unlike back in 1984. so i am happy to be stuck in the past, sure i like modern bands but has their been albums made like Master Of Puppets, Reign In Blood, Rust In Peace, Operation Mindcrime, Number Of The Beast since then? nope.

so for myself i like old metal better because they played it and meant it. i am not speaking for all bands out today, but so many don't have the heart anymore. it's putting out music simply to stay on tour and make money that way. music is secondary, touring is primary.

but Nevermore use 7 strings, albeit better than most nu-metal bands but they do use 7 strings so that does come with it's stereotypes, just as it does for the massive influx of 7 string "deathcore" "metalcore" whatever bands. 7 strings have basically been the death of metal in my opinion, sure it makes it's heavier but i think metal was pretty damn heavy and still can be with 6 strings. we should have left the 7 string curse with Korn and all those bands hahaha. so thanks Mr. Vai!

 

[TribunalRecords]

Like Metalmilita said (God this is bizzarro forum as I'm agreeing with him again) talking about a Sanctuary reunion is in no way in relation to helping Nevermore out. However, it does piss me off a little bit because it to me means Warrel is putting some emphasis on Sanctuary when it should all be on Nevermore at the moment. It also could disrupt potential Nevermore tours, which is another thing that doesn't sit well with me.

again, this is like when Dream Theater "just happened" to promote Mutiny Within?!

you realize they could release Sanctuary news WHENEVER they wanted, but they chose RIGHT NOW on the eve of the new Nevermore album dropping.

so obviously it's either because Nevermore isn't touring so warrel and jim (is he even in NM anymore) will be shifting focus to Sanctuary, or they are using it for an extra push for Nevermore album. i mean it's not hard to figure out.

press is done for a reason (ask Claus): to promote something and why would warrel want to conflict press with new Nevermore album, unless it's planned that way?!?!

common sense if you ask me.

Umm...yeah, the only band you named really that was nu metal there is Disturbed. I think you're just confusing metalcore with nu metal is all. Metalcore at least has some decent musicianship SOMETIMES unlike nu metal which doesn't really in my opinion. Then again, in terms of popularity at the moment and such, metalcore essentially is becoming the new nu metal due to a lot of people dismissing it as metal altogether.

here i go, call me crazy but i like disturbed (well, everything after the debut). not saying i like them as people because singer seems to be douche but their second album is pretty damn good (and others after that are decent enough). plenty of amazing melodies and catchy as hell choruses. i recommend giving it a listen. besides justin timberlake its a guilty pleasure of mine.

 

[nomisofsiman]

again, this is like when Dream Theater "just happened" to promote Mutiny Within?!

you realize they could release Sanctuary news WHENEVER they wanted, but they chose RIGHT NOW on the eve of the new Nevermore album dropping.

so obviously it's either because Nevermore isn't touring so warrel and jim (is he even in NM anymore) will be shifting focus to Sanctuary, or they are using it for an extra push for Nevermore album. i mean it's not hard to figure out.

press is done for a reason (ask Claus): to promote something and why would warrel want to conflict press with new Nevermore album, unless it's planned that way?!?!

common sense if you ask me.



here i go, call me crazy but i like disturbed (well, everything after the debut). not saying i like them as people because singer seems to be douche but their second album is pretty damn good (and others after that are decent enough). plenty of amazing melodies and catchy as hell choruses. i recommend giving it a listen. besides justin timberlake its a guilty pleasure of mine.

I know they could release the Sanctuary news whenever and I agree that they probably did this to help the album. What I meant (and I very well could've not said it clearly) is I don't honestly think announcing Sanctuary is going to help Nevermore sales. I don't see how announcing it will get more people interested in buying new Nevermore. Most people if they know Nevermore, know what Sanctuary is and vice-versa. It's not going to make them want to buy the new album though. Those same people would've bought it anyways. All this will do is make fans that like Sanctuary and not Nevermore (which I would think is a small percentage) more aware of the upcoming Sanctuary album. To me personally, it just pisses me off to do this now apposed to waiting when the album/touring cycle ended for Nevermore.

As far as Disturbed goes, I'm sorry but I just can't stand them. Like I said in the other thread, I think they do good covers but that's it. I actually did try to get into them a while back but couldn't because quite honestly, to me all their songs sound the same. Despite that though, there actually are some nu metal bands I still enjoy like (and I'll get flamed for this I'm sure) Korn and Staind (before they went soft).

 

[J. Golden]

I always felt Nevermore had a lot of a nu metal feel to them. Never could really place it, maybe it was the 7-strings or the crowd they often ran with.
Nope we will never seee 'Operation' Reign in Blood', 'Master of Puppets' ever again and that DID make that 80s special. The past two decades have not given us albums anywhere close to those albums.
Ik these things came from the 80s, please give me something in the past two decades that remotely come close? Bear in mind this all happened without the internet, Pro-Tools and cut and past "journalist".

Iron Maiden become giants
'Operation Mindcrime'
N.W.O.B.H.M.
Bands like Manilla Road build cult followings that are unmatched by anything of the past 20 years.
Kerrang magazine
we could take this on forever

 

[Matt Crooks]

Ik these things came from the 80s, please give me something in the past two decades that remotely come close? Bear in mind this all happened without the internet, Pro-Tools and cut and past "journalist".

I'll give you a few:
Blind Guardian, Imaginations from the Other Side
Ark, Burn the Sun
Fate's Warning, Parallels
At the Gates, Slaugher of the Soul

It's hard to say if anything that's been released in the past 5 - 10 years will live up to those standards, just because there hasn't been enough time for them to achieve that level of timelessness.

Also, cut and paste was being used in studios back to the 70s. It was done with analog tape and a razor blade.... good thing too, or the self titled Whitesnake would never have been finished

...and to add to the tally, I prefer Nevermore over Sanctuary, and I am a huge Sanctuary fan. I saw them twice as Sanctuary and at least ten times as Nevermore.

 

[Dolamite S. Biffle]

but Nevermore use 7 strings, albeit better than most nu-metal bands but they do use 7 strings so that does come with it's stereotypes, just as it does for the massive influx of 7 string "deathcore" "metalcore" whatever bands. 7 strings have basically been the death of metal in my opinion, sure it makes it's heavier but i think metal was pretty damn heavy and still can be with 6 strings. we should have left the 7 string curse with Korn and all those bands hahaha. so thanks Mr. Vai!

Meshuggah uses 7 strings to, does that make them nu metal as well?

Also Iced Earth's "SWTWC" and Pantera's "Vulgar Display of Power" rank up there for me so to say that those records arent on the same level as "O:MC" thats your opinion not fact.

 

[General Zod]

I always felt Nevermore had a lot of a nu metal feel to them. Never could really place it, maybe it was the 7-strings or the crowd they often ran with.

Are 7-string guitars NuMetal?

Just out of curiosity, what "crowd" are you referring to?

Nope we will never seee 'Operation', Reign in Blood', 'Master of Puppets' eve412r again and that DID make that 80s special.

I'll leave Reign in Blood out of the conversation, as I've never had any interest in what Slayer does and Reign in Blood wouldn't crack my Top 5,000. With regard to Operation, I would agree that it is in fact special, and that it is in fact the greatest disc of all-time. However, the decade that yielded the greatest disc, doesn't automatically become the greatest decade. The vast majority of the 80s, like any other decade, was filled with pure crap. For every Queensryche, there were 1,000 Jackyls, Firehouses and Brittany Foxes.

The past two decades have not given us albums anywhere close to those albums.

I'd disagree. In no particular order...

Nevermore - Dreaming Neon Black
Zero Hour - Towers of Avarice
Opeth - Still Life
Iced Earth - The Glorious Burden
Symphony X - The New Mythology Suite
Primordial - The Gathering Wilderness
Redemption - The Origins of Ruin

If Operation: Mindcrime is the only 10/10 disc in the universe, than the above discs are all surely 9/10. Which would make them pretty darn close.

Ik these things came from the 80s, please give me something in the past two decades that remotely come close?

I would suggest that I just did. But it's all so subjective.

Bear in mind this all happened without the internet, Pro-Tools and cut and past "journalist".

I would argue nearly everything in the 80s came about because the genre had corporate sponsorship. Musicians were making music more to become rock stars, than to create art. And I would argue that being relegated to using the internet to reach the underground has more nobility than getting the word out on David Letterman. Please see the the thread Glenn posted on Primordial. Do you honestly think that any of the guys in Slayer, Queensryche and Metallica would have been touring the U.S. in their late 30s, for $150 a week, just so their fans could hear the music? Nemtheanga shits more integrity than Metallica, Queensryche and Slayer have as a whole.

 

[J-Man]

When does the number of strings on your guitar define the genre of music you are playing? I guess I missed that memo. Oh i know some guitar players that are now using 8 string guitars( ie Rusty Cooley, Drew Creel, Chris Ledford, Malek Ben Arbia, Nick VanDyk), what genre does that make them?

 

[dcowboys311]

most good black and death metal came out post-80s so I think that makes 80s the weakest decade for metal by default

 

[TribunalRecords]

Meshuggah uses 7 strings to, does that make them nu metal as well?

Most definitely. The original version of Nothing is 100% tech nu-metal. sure their timing and arrangements are oddball, but bottom line is that album was made to reach new fans. Now, older Meshuggah would fall into the Nevermore category, in the fact that they use 7 strings better than most. Destroy Erase Improve altered metal forever, in a great way. i love that album.

Also Iced Earth's "SWTWC" and Pantera's "Vulgar Display of Power" rank up there for me so to say that those records arent on the same level as "O:MC" thats your opinion not fact.

for the record those were just SOME examples. i could have listed 100 albums, but those came to mind first. don't get your panties in a bunch. of course, it's my opinion whatever i say is my opinion.

also Cowboys From Hell is better.

 

[TribunalRecords]

most good black and death metal came out post-80s so I think that makes 80s the weakest decade for metal by default

i will give it to you on black metal considering it really wasn't a prominent genre at the time, so to even say it was around in the 80's isn't really true. Venom don't stack up to CoF now.

but no good death metal in the 80s? ok, sure most of the best stuff was technically released in 1990 and 1991, but to me that was still born in the late 80's. but i assume you would say the early stuff isn't as good as the later stuff? but i would argue that too.

Carcass, Entombed, Death, Morbid Angel, Obituary, Napalm Death, etc.

 

[TribunalRecords]

When does the number of strings on your guitar define the genre of music you are playing? I guess I missed that memo. Oh i know some guitar players that are now using 8 string guitars( ie Rusty Cooley, Drew Creel, Chris Ledford, Malek Ben Arbia, Nick VanDyk), what genre does that make them?

i only know of Rusty Cooley, but if rest are like him the genre would simply be, SHRED. hahaha.

 

[TribunalRecords]

I know they could release the Sanctuary news whenever and I agree that they probably did this to help the album. What I meant (and I very well could've not said it clearly) is I don't honestly think announcing Sanctuary is going to help Nevermore sales. I don't see how announcing it will get more people interested in buying new Nevermore. Most people if they know Nevermore, know what Sanctuary is and vice-versa. It's not going to make them want to buy the new album though. Those same people would've bought it anyways.

i agree.