Scott Burns Production

[dan weapon]

i liked Scott alot. i considered him a good friend. after 3 albums with him i made a decision, largely influenced by my label, to not do my Disincarnate album with him. he took a great offense to that and called me to strongly express his displeasure with me about it over the phone. i tried to calm him down, but he was having none of it. we haven't spoken since. a few years later he left the business for a different career.... something involving computers.

Still bums me out to this day that things went down that way and that he took it so personally. i still hold a great deal of respect for Scott, and have not one ounce of bad feeling toward him.

That's quite a shame to hear that...

Although I'd imagine you were happy with your decision, as the sound (drums especially, kick drum even more especially!) on Dreams of the Carrion Kind definitely benefit from the Colin mix, compared to the Scott Burns low rumbling.

 

[_Brutalism_]

Damn that's quite a depressing story there James. It's unfortunate how events take place sometimes and result with long-term effects.

To be honest, even though I am cautious about the album sound as a whole, I wouldn't wish any of those albums to be remade by anyone else. No offense to Mr. Sneap, Mr. Murphy or anyone else, but I think those albums captured the era in which they were released so well. I have to add, I wasn't born when most of them came out but looking back at those times thanks to the abundance of information and footage, it is easy to relate to the sound of those albums and to me they hold something special which gives them the right to be untouched in their greatness. Of course there are flaws, and some obvious ones too, but sometimes it's the imperfections which make something stand out so beautifully. Kind of like a roughed up and slightly worn out Land Rover amongst a sea of polished sports cars. I wouldn't want to see those albums re-recorded (although a nice remaster as was done with most {or all?} of those albums was a nice touch) in 2008.

I know Exhorder are going to re-record some classics and I am excited to hear them re-recorded, but I will always cherish those historical gems for what they were back in the day and for the way they have shaped the metal scene over the decades.

 

[Uladyne]

Damn that's quite a depressing story there James. It's unfortunate how events take place sometimes and result with long-term effects.

To be honest, even though I am cautious about the album sound as a whole, I wouldn't wish any of those albums to be remade by anyone else. No offense to Mr. Sneap, Mr. Murphy or anyone else, but I think those albums captured the era in which they were released so well. I have to add, I wasn't born when most of them came out but looking back at those times thanks to the abundance of information and footage, it is easy to relate to the sound of those albums and to me they hold something special which gives them the right to be untouched in their greatness. Of course there are flaws, and some obvious ones too, but sometimes it's the imperfections which make something stand out so beautifully. Kind of like a roughed up and slightly worn out Land Rover amongst a sea of polished sports cars. I wouldn't want to see those albums re-recorded (although a nice remaster as was done with most {or all?} of those albums was a nice touch) in 2008.

I know Exhorder are going to re-record some classics and I am excited to hear them re-recorded, but I will always cherish those historical gems for what they were back in the day and for the way they have shaped the metal scene over the decades.

Well said.

 

[EerieVon]

I wasn't born when most of them came out but looking back at those times

Damn I feel old, I remember the ads for Beneath and Arise in Kerrang and Metal Maniacs.

At the time you really couldnt get a better sound than Scott Burns, you have to remember at the time thrash was still king and most producers didnt have the slightest idea what to do with these bands in the more extreme genre, the notable exceptions were Scott Burns (bands mentioned above) and Colin Richardson (Carcass)

 

[sparkyness]

I remember living in a country town in Australia in the middle of nowhere when I was 14 (circa 1988-89). Every month my folks would drive us to the nearest "big" town and they had a great record store and I'd buy the first thing I found (with money earnt by mowing lawns for the 3 previous weekends) that had either Scott Burns or Alex Perialas listed as producer on the back cover. I'd spend the entire trip back home wondering what the hell (literally) awaited me when I got the thing on the stereo when I got home. I blame Scott and Alex for who I am today

 

[TravisW]

Damn I feel old, I remember the ads for Beneath and Arise in Kerrang and Metal Maniacs.

At the time you really couldnt get a better sound than Scott Burns, you have to remember at the time thrash was still king and most producers didnt have the slightest idea what to do with these bands in the more extreme genre, the notable exceptions were Scott Burns (bands mentioned above) and Colin Richardson (Carcass)

In a lot of cases, they still hadn't figured out thrash yet. A lot of extreme metal bands were chasing that scooped Metallica tone--that combined with downtuning and a number of other factors made it a bit tougher. It's way cheaper and easier now that we can pretty much slap a relatively cheap 5150 and some Celestions together and get a distortion tone that is aggressive but still maintains clarity.

 

[STINNETT]

Man, I love Scott Burns records. The "dated" sound of some of them reconnects me with that era and that is just priceless.
I also thought they sounded incredible back then.

 

[TravisW]

I agree. That's the way I feel about a lot of recordings that might sound "dated" or "flawed" by today's standards. I love Mercyful Fate's Melissa and Oath, but they're far from being a producer's dream by modern standards.

James brings up a great point too. It's so much cheaper and easier to make a decent-sounding recording today than it ever has been in the past, it's just ridiculous.

 

[EerieVon]

Man, I love Scott Burns records. The "dated" sound of some of them reconnects me with that era and that is just priceless.
I also thought they sounded incredible back then.

I agree--it brings me back to when I first listened to them for the first time and was awestruck by the production--how the kick was clearer than the last, etc. I wouldnt want them messed with at all. Albums that stand out in my mind as blowing me away back then on day of release--Anthrax-Persistance, Fear Factory-Soul, Carcass-Heartwork,and Entombed-Wolverine Blues

 

[colonel kurtz]

Man, I love Scott Burns records. The "dated" sound of some of them reconnects me with that era and that is just priceless.
I also thought they sounded incredible back then.

they still sound incredible

just a couple days ago i was working out with my ipod...of course it's loaded with a bunch of metal at shit. near the end of my workout, some tracks played from BTR and arise, and it absolutely slayed all of the newer shit i had on there

today, for the hell of it, i listened to a couple of cavalera conspiracy tracks, and the generic quad-tracked 5150s into V30 tone combined with the quantization and samples on igor's drumming made it damned near unlistenable

 

[James Murphy]

James brings up a great point too. It's so much cheaper and easier to make a decent-sounding recording today than it ever has been in the past, it's just ridiculous.

did i make that point? i'm sure i didn't.... but it can be, it's just not guaranteed. technology doesn't produce/mix albums, people do... and concerning gear, there's still a certain quality level that requires a not insignificant buy-in to truly acheive spectacular audio. the real difference is the amount of time, when you choose the right person and the right gear in the right place, that you can spend making an album. that's the key difference.

sure, you can make "an album" in your basement with a cracked version of cakewalk and a m-audio interface for dirt cheap, and it may be musically amazing... which will mitigate a shitload of audio defiiciencies... but your just not going to get the kind of sonics that you hear on the best of the best of today's top metal productions done in quality acoustic spaces with top notch gear and produced by the top producers and mixed by the top mixers. that's still going to require a budget..... and for the top bands, and bands aspiring to the top, this is the only way to go in my opinion... and the credits on the top charting albums bear this out (the new metallica excepted ).

so i did intend to make a point, but it wasn't that making albums is super cheap now... but certainly more varying levels of quality and entry points are available now than ever before.

 

[TravisW]

did i make that point? i'm sure i didn't.... but it can be, it's just not guaranteed. technology doesn't produce/mix albums, people do... and concerning gear, there's still a certain quality level that requires a not insignificant buy-in to truly acheive spectacular audio. the real difference is the amount of time, when you choose the right person and the right gear in the right place, that you can spend making an album. that's the key difference.

I guess what I was driving at was that the gap in recording quality between the big labels and smaller labels seems a whole lot smaller than back then.

 

[-J-]

back then, I used to seek out scott burns stuff - knowing you'd be able to hear the bass drum. interesting insider info from james. I personally never thought about the restrictions/budgets on stuff back then. I think there was a perception of the youth that if you were signed, you'd be a millionaire with a limitless budged. At least that's what I thought.

Even with a limited budget though - I don't like the idea of using the same exact snare sound for several different bands. I'd rather hear a crappier snare mic'ed of that particular band. The sampled one just ended up sounding too fake on exhorder (and devastation, if indeed it was used on idolatary).

 

[James Murphy]

I guess what I was driving at was that the gap in recording quality between the big labels and smaller labels seems a whole lot smaller than back then.

yes, dead on. on average this is true... the gap is smaller.

 

[MetalWorks]

Anybody watch the new Cannibal Corpse DVD yet?

Theres alot of Content with Scott Burns in it.

 

[Pxz]

looking forward to see that dvd, seems like it contents a lot of history of the early days ?

 

[coneyis]

Anybody watch the new Cannibal Corpse DVD yet?

Theres alot of Content with Scott Burns in it.

I'm gonna have to put that on the radar!

 

[Sacha]

Thanks to this thread for reminding me to re-buy Dreams of the Carrion Kind on CD, what a great album! I had it on cassette when it first came out...fuck I'm old too. I still enjoy all those old albums, production or not, great music!!!

 

[axeman720]

Scott definitely left his mark. I certainly respect the work he put into early death metal, it must have been really frustrating to be that talented and be pigeon holed the way he was. It was most of the reason for his leaving the business from what i hear. He was just exhausted and frustrated.

I've spent quite a bit of time down at morrisound as well, and its just fascinating to sit and pick jim and tom morris' brains about the sessions back then. Some of the stories are just fucking hilarious and some just shocking. They sure did a fuck load of work back in those days.

That being said, two of my favorite Scott Burns Productions:

Malevolent Creation "Retribution" One of his best death metal mixes and in my opinion one of the top 5 Death Metal Releases of All time. Just fucking great record, unbelievably extreme and badass for the time and still to this day.

Atheist "Unquestionable Presence" Fuck man, what a bunch of freaks! The songs a bit hard to digest but its so amazing and over the top. Sounds great too.

Although i hate the mix, i will say i think Death Human is the best record he ever produced and Deaths best material. Just imagine if it sounded as good as symbolic. There would almost be no reason to go on! Heh :Smokedev:

OH! and how could i forget. Suffocations "pierced from within" They basically wrote every great death metal riff ever on that record. So evil, so badass. Just love it. Still to this day love that record. Sounds alright too, but that was much later in the game, 1995.

 

[Bloodsoaked666]

James...if you don't mind me asking what was the budget/cost to work with Scott back in the day?

On a side note, I loved and still love Scott Burns produced albums. I remember getting Sepultura's BTR on vinyl when it came out and I was in love with the guitars and overall production and I still love it. Old Obituary and Death....those are classic in terms of Death Metal and production.

In 1988, 89 and 90 I thought Scott Burns and Morrisound Studios were Gods! I was 18 years old in 1988 and to hear Scott Burns name meant Death Metal!!! I think there is a picture of him on the inside of the Terrorizer CD/Tape/LP.

In my opinion Scott Burns is a pioner in Death Metal history!