Scott's right, the record industry is through........

[TD]

..........This isn't a Billy Milano style knock on Anthrax, but WCFYA is probably going to be worst selling CD since Fistful. It will be lucky to out do Vol. 8 the way the recording industry is today. The RIAA did this to themselve by fucking people out of $$$$$$$$$$ for decades. 17 bucks for a CD Fuck that. People have just wised up, and this isn't anything new. Perennial multiplatinum sold out concert artists are struggling just to get to gold. KISS's Psycho Circus and Aerosmith's Just Push Play are great examples. All the airplay "Jaded" and "JPP" got on mTV, radio, and Dodge ad's and the album stalled and died at platinum. A decade earlier that album would be quintuple platinum. Where did all the fans go? They still like Aerosmith, but several things happened: Some fans wised up and said "I ain't paying that much for a CD, fuck you", and just downloaded it. Others are sooooo swamped with other forms of media: DVD's, video games, what not, they are just done w/ buying music period. Why pay 20 bucks for a CD when you pick up a damn good movie or game?????? Mark my words, even the mighty Metallica are gonna suffer from the depressed RIAA. "St. Anger" will be the worst seller since Kill 'Em All, I gaurantee it. The shame is that bands like Anthrax and Type O Negative suffer the most from this. Their success is only marginal and their back catalog isn't enough to sustain them nor do they play arenas (like KISS, Def Lepp, Metallica etc, etc) Anthrax could benefit HUGELY from just a few thousand copies that first week on the charts, but i don't see it happening.

The concert industry is next. Bands like KISS, Ozzy, and ZZ Top are relying on concert income to compensate for their now sagging record sales (believe me, gold in 2003 is = to double platinum in 1988, people don't buy music anymore) so they've driven ticket prices UP. Also, companies like Clear Channel and House of Blues are promoting shows EVERYWHERE so that they have no competition and can keep prices UP. Eventually people will see this for the joke that it is and stop paying $100 to see Boston and Styx. You can only rip people off for so long, people are stupid, but if you fuck with peoples money long enough, even the stupid ones, they'll catch on.

 

[paulaquarian]

records will sell as long as promotion is still there. think about 50 cent, eminem. mind you, the people that buy those are more inclined to be mindfucked by mtv, but the shit works. in turn, what's fucked up is people shell out the money for dvds. i think cds need to be repackaged with special features that dvds offer like commentary, behind the scenes. perhaps live footage on cd, etc.
i'd have to say that anthrax are definitely marketing themselves well for this record, especially with interviews and hopefully things will go their way.

 

[jdelpi]

Ty,
I respectfully dissent on your sales forecast. Sure, things will never be the same as 1988, but this record has to sell more than Volume 8. I don't recall this much hype over Volume 8.

Also, as an economics major, I have to wonder what the rationale behind record labels is in this case. I know that major labels have to subsidize their activities in promoting shitty artists that never go anywhere with the best-sellers.

I'm going to paste an excerpt from a Wall Street Journal article:

For two years, Vivendi Universal SA's MCA Records paid the rent here while Ms. Hennessy prepared for pop stardom. And that's not all: The label so far has spent about $2.2 million to make and market her new album, an upbeat pop recording called "Ultimate High." "Some people just struggle," she says. "I was very, very lucky."

Not lucky enough. "Ultimate High" was released in stores nationwide three months ago. So far, it has sold only 378 copies -- amounting to about $4,900 at its suggested retail price.

----------
(email me if you want the whole article. it's interesting)


on a side note, someone asked me today (because of my shirt) if I had Sound of White Noise. I said yes and we talked a bit. I should have said yes, I have four different versions, the demos, the video press kit and most of the singles and promos. He liked SOWN but didn't like Stomp too much. He's a big Pantera fan.

 

[mrthrax]

great comments td,cds in australia have an average price of 25 bucks(nearly 50 bucks in american dollars).

its good to see record companies panicing,they have have such a monopoly for the last 100 years,sad thing is it hurts the artists!!!

where did the 10 million fans that bought kid rocks album go,cocky has sold at the most 2 million copies.

i wouldnt be so negative about metallica though,they will still sell a couple million copies without even blinking.

as for anthrax it is a scary thought,lets take bets on how many they will sell in first week,it was very dissapointing that record didnt get released simultaniously across the globe and that will hurt them even more but i will say 50 thousand copies copies in first week and if they are lucky maybe even cracking 100 thousand after a good cycle of touring,i know this is a very optimistic outlook but i feel anthrax are in a better state then volume 8 days.

start a poll someone it will be fun.

lets just hope sanctuary and other labels start giving us more bang for our buck,videos on cds is a start but they need to do a whole lot more!

a cd should be no more than 10 bucks,simple as that.

 

[ThraxDude]

start a poll someone it will be fun.

N.F.F.-
I think he's talking to you......

 

[mrthrax]

N.F.F.-
I think he's talking to you......

well i would hate to step on nff's shoes u know

 

[TD]

Delpi - I'd argue that Volume 8 had just as much hype as they were on the Pantera tour just months before and all the mags were doing articles on "the big comeback they were making in indie-land." All the "hype" you speak of for this album is small time internet bulletin board hype, this hype is all generated from a small amount of people who do nothing but download tunes and post messages. Also, half the crowd that would be buying WCFYA has already downloaded it or bought the import. The sinlge is doing nothing at radio or MTV and no mags are mentioning the album. It may outsell Vol. 8, but seeing how Vol. 8 onlysold 80,000 the bar is rather low.

 

[Cincy Vigilante]

50 thou its first week? I would be shocked if it does that.
Anyway,
I cant remember the last time I paid 20 bucks for a cd. Audioslave was under 10, Queens of the Stone Age 8.99. New Overkill 15. Yeah in the mall at Sam Goodies they might charge 18.99 but who are the dumb asses that buy cds there? I think the decline in record sales is due to a few things. Downloading is reason number one. I know ppl that have cd cases full of burned cds. There not sampling, or checking the band out hes just stealing the freaking music. And I'm sure there are millions of people just like him in the U.S. alone. Record lables are at fault also. They don't cultivate artists like they should. They don't groom them for long term success. They push the artist hard on the first record then let them wither and burn. This way they don't have to pay big money deals and get burned. I.E. Motley Crue ZZTop, anyone remember the deals they got? They Want Macy Gray, or Counting Crowes. Big fast money. Remember how it used to be bands started out small and then they toured released a few albums and they maybe they were big. I.E. Metallica or Fleetwood Mac or any number of bands from the 70's or 80's.
I think Metallica will still see HUGE and I think Thrax will sell AT LEAST better than Fistful. I think it will do well long term not like huge first week sales but after word of mouth and touring it will do okay.

 

[TD]

50 thou its first week? I would be shocked if it does that.
Anyway,
I cant remember the last time I paid 20 bucks for a cd. Audioslave was under 10, Queens of the Stone Age 8.99. New Overkill 15. Yeah in the mall at Sam Goodies they might charge 18.99 but who are the dumb asses that buy cds there? I think the decline in record sales is due to a few things. Downloading is reason number one. I know ppl that have cd cases full of burned cds. There not sampling, or checking the band out hes just stealing the freaking music. And I'm sure there are millions of people just like him in the U.S. alone. Record lables are at fault also. They don't cultivate artists like they should. They don't groom them for long term success. They push the artist hard on the first record then let them wither and burn. This way they don't have to pay big money deals and get burned. I.E. Motley Crue ZZTop, anyone remember the deals they got? They Want Macy Gray, or Counting Crowes. Big fast money. Remember how it used to be bands started out small and then they toured released a few albums and they maybe they were big. I.E. Metallica or Fleetwood Mac or any number of bands from the 70's or 80's.
I think Metallica will still see HUGE and I think Thrax will sell AT LEAST better than Fistful. I think it will do well long term not like huge first week sales but after word of mouth and touring it will do okay.

I agree 100%. bands used to sign small label deals, tour their asses off, and work their way to the majors or turn that small label major by giving them a platinum record(KISS/Casablanca, Type O Negative/Roadrunner). Bands worked their asses off, and the labels worked w/ radio to get the singles played in the cities they were touring in. Bands either made it or didn't, but they were all given a shot and they worked towards success. That just doesn't happen anymore. Music is now just a "Product" to the labels. In fact, touring and recording aren't even part of the same business anymore to these labels. I think the labels would rather have bands that don't even tour as backward as that is. Rap bands rarely play live and don't draw when they do. They do draw sheep to malls to buy their crap though.


Cincy - yes, downloading is stealing, but do you blame anyone???? I've spent enough money on the record industry to put a nice down payment on a house. From here on out all I buy is old records, if I can't find the record, I'll burn it. Bands I love and support, I will buy their discs but only the ones I really love.

 

[VitalMarcus]

Maybe Band A(just using an example) isn't writing music as great as their heyday, and maybe that's why their sales are down. Here's another example: Nirvana's Nevermind sold 9 million copies, but In Utero only sold 4 million copies, as it wasn't as polished and as "poppy" sounding as Nevermind. People like to hear poppy stuff with big choruses and other stuff like that. Why do you think prog bands or metal bands don't sell so well? It's not easy listening like Britney Spears.

So:
1.Write good songs
2.Sophomore slump may happen
3.If you want to sell albums, make them poppy and accessable.
4.(I didn't touch on this one above)Get on a major label

 

[jdelpi]

Delpi - I'd argue that Volume 8 had just as much hype as they were on the Pantera tour just months before and all the mags were doing articles on "the big comeback they were making in indie-land." All the "hype" you speak of for this album is small time internet bulletin board hype, this hype is all generated from a small amount of people who do nothing but download tunes and post messages. Also, half the crowd that would be buying WCFYA has already downloaded it or bought the import. The sinlge is doing nothing at radio or MTV and no mags are mentioning the album. It may outsell Vol. 8, but seeing how Vol. 8 onlysold 80,000 the bar is rather low.

Hehe, that last line is what I was getting at.

This downloading issue is frustrating. I was talking to this kid and he said he had 20 Black Sabbath CDs. I thought wow, that's impressive. Then he told me he downloads the music and even prints the artwork. I thought that's pretty fucking lame. Especially since you can buy the back catalogue of Sabbath pretty damn cheap. I of course download stuff as well. I have also bought CDs as a result of downloading. I've been buying the Judas Priest back catalogue.

Hopefully the hype is more than just message board hype. You're right, there were some decent articles in Guitar, Metal Edge, and Hit Parader when Vol. 8 came out.
Hopefully we'll get all those again. Now KNAC.com is pushing it. MTV2 will push it a little at least, but who the fuck even gets MTV2? I don't.

You're right, the Pantera tour was supposed to be hype and it didn't work completely. I haven't really heard someone say they like Pantera and don't like Anthrax. That's frustrating. Motorhead is not as big as Pantera, but hopefully that tour WHILE THE ALBUM is out helps more. Touring without an album is fun, but people have short attention spans and short memories. There was almost a half a year wait between the Pantera tour and the release of Vol. 8.

Also, we'll never know Volume 8's full potential as right after we saw them at the Flying Dump, they had to stop with the touring. Such a shame.

MetallicA has the right idea in releasing the live in the studio DVD with the CD. They played it off on their website like they're just giving away free shit, but puhlease, we know it's an incentive to buy the album. They know a ton of people are going to download the album. Metallica can at least can afford to do that though. It's nice that Anthrax is putting the extra CD-ROM stuff on the CD, but who watches that stuff? I never looked at that stuff on my Maiden CDs. I checked it once on Armored Saint's Nod to the Old School.

Maybe they should change their name to SARS.

 

[TD]

Maybe Band A(just using an example) isn't writing music as great as their heyday, and maybe that's why their sales are down. Here's another example: Nirvana's Nevermind sold 9 million copies, but In Utero only sold 4 million copies, as it wasn't as polished and as "poppy" sounding as Nevermind. People like to hear poppy stuff with big choruses and other stuff like that. Why do you think prog bands or metal bands don't sell so well? It's not easy listening like Britney Spears.

So:
1.Write good songs
2.Sophomore slump may happen
3.If you want to sell albums, make them poppy and accessable.
4.(I didn't touch on this one above)Get on a major label

People use that argument alot "those bands just aren't as good as they once were" and in some cases it is certainly true. But that argument doesn't bode well because NO ONE sells like they used too. Do you really think that KISS' Psycho Circus was worse than KISS Crazy Nights??? Well, Crazy Nights sold twice as much. Do you really think AC/DC's Stiff Upper Lip was worse than Blow Up Your Video? Was Just Push Play worse than Permanent Vacation? Do you see what I'm getting at, that is why I said Gold today is worth double platinum in the 80's???

And yes, pop products will always sell, but they will be here today gone tomorrow.

 

[TD]

P.S. I'm not at all upset over the downloading issue. The record industry raped and pillaged US the record buying public for years, this is what they call karma. It is unfortunate for bands like Anthrax yes, but it is up to someone with some creativity to figure out how to use the downloading thing to their advantage and revolutionize the industry. The whole stealing music thing will end at a certain point and everything will be purchased on line, it will just take a good pragmatist to establish the framework and template for how this will work. I'll still be buying old records though because music sucks now

 

[jdelpi]

Hey whatever happened to when stores like Sun TV, Best Buy and Media Play had CDs for like $11.99 or so? Anthrax's Island catalogue (sans Live) was all $9.99. Inflation has been extremely low over the last decade, but the prices have risen a couple of bucks.

I'd be curious to see how used record stores do in a a shitty economy. Used CDs would be an inferior good, that is, a good people buy more of when their income is lower.

The economics of this is SO interesting (to me).

 

[mentalmeltdown]

CD's are a relatively expendable good and also a non-essential one. When the economy is struggling, people are logically spending less money and saving more. However, an inferior goods' demand rises proportionnaly with the drop in the income.

The conclusion? WCFYA kicks ass and Anthrax can wipe the floor with Metallica's St-Anger any time.

 

[jdelpi]

CD's are a relatively expendable good and also a non-essential one. When the economy is struggling, people are logically spending less money and saving more. However, an inferior goods' demand rises proportionnaly with the drop in the income.

The conclusion? WCFYA kicks ass and Anthrax can wipe the floor with Metallica's St-Anger any time.

HAHAHAHA

 

[mrthrax]

there is a market for everyone,just look at cradle of filth they cracked the top 50 in australia will probably outsell anthrax's new record here and overseas,they seem to be managed very well,they are in nearly every metal mag at one point or another,i only ever see anthrax in mags if they are touring or releasing a record.

and that last point is not really fair since they havent been churning the records out and been on the scene to much in the last decade,its not all there fault but 5 years in between records is discraceful!!!!!

 

[astroboy]

This album will probably sell as much as Vol 8 but certainly not more. The only factor that might really change the record's career is if Anthrax gets the support slot on a big tour (Maiden, Metallica). Even if the record industry is fucked up, let's not forget that Anthrax is not a new band and that they been playing the game for almost 20 years, which means that fans who were there during their commercial peak must be now between 30/35 and have other interests than music. The fact that they lost people on the way is just normal.
Cradle Of Filth might sell more cd's than Anthrax right now but i doubt they will have a 20 years career and last as long as Anthrax. In fact in Europe, their sales are already getting lower.
As far as the download thing goes, this is a more alarming sign. Downloaded music sounds bad if you listen to it on a decent stereo system. Problem is that people have absolutely no education as far as listening to music and hi-fi. I have a $ 3000 hi-fi system and it makes all the difference in the world.

 

[dutchy]

Trax will never go platinum cause nobody is interested. You said it yourself TD in the thread about how many people Trax attract with a concert...... 600!!Thesedays Trax has a solid hardcore fanbase an attracts some new fans with this new record. All the people who bought SOWN were not real fans , they were just going through a "heavy "fase in there life and Trax had the good tunes/promotion, and now they switched to something else(Creed/Train/SmashMouth), same goes for those Toxic Twins they got played out nobodys interested anymore, same music every year with the same music video's!!
BTW Liv Tyler is one hot looking chick!!Those were the good days!!

 

[dutchy]

........Metallica is never gonna sell as much with the new album, because it's to heavy for all the "nothing else mathers"ballad fuckers, these are the people who make albums go platinum, youre nextdoor neighbour who never heard of Sacred reich , Testament, ST or whatever but claim to be heavy cause they have been to a Metallica show and have the Black album, but are nothing more then a bunch of faggots that buy whatever the radio/tv plays them and have never picked up a rockmagazine in theire life to find out what's really going on!!!!!!!!!
Trax4LifeBitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!