Sending to Mastering Engineer

[dabhoys]

Recently mixed an EP for a band. The tracks were sent off to be professionally mastered. I was told when I was mixing for mastering that I had to keep the guitars slightly down. As once the compression and limiting starts going on they will jump right up. Also leaving some precious dB headroom for him to work with too.

I did this and it was fine but my bass was a wee bit to loud after mastering. Heh I'm still learning and every project I work on is a learning curve.

I was just wondering what other pit falls to look out for when working on mixes that are going out to be mastered by someone who knows what there doing.

 

[Gomez]

Recently mixed an EP for a band. The tracks were sent off to be professionally mastered. I was told when I was mixing for mastering that I had to keep the guitars slightly down. As once the compression and limiting starts going on they will jump right up. Also leaving some precious dB headroom for him to work with too.

I did this and it was fine but my bass was a wee bit to loud after mastering. Heh I'm still learning and every project I work on is a learning curve.

I was just wondering what other pit falls to look out for when working on mixes that are going out to be mastered by someone who knows what there doing.

Hey dabhoys:

Agood mastering engineer would try the impossible (or at least I do) to improve your production. there's a number of tricks and tools, that we can often implement to fix things, but in mastering, most of the time all you have is 2 tracks so every small tweak is quite likely to affect everything else. probably the easiest thing to get away with fixing during a mastering session is the low end. If a kick or the bass has too much energy below 100/80 Hz, it can normally be tackled with multiband compression, filtering or eq-ing. If there are problems the mid range, things get a lot more complicated. Somtimes Vocals get louder too, or sibilant etc... as the voice is normally panned to the centre, sometimes you can fix the issue with MS decoding... etc etc etc...

In few occassions, all I could do is tell the band to re-mix the material after I have exploited all my options and there are still prblems. when there's no budget or time to do so, then the band will have to live it and do a better job for their next release...

When they DO re-mix and fix the problematic elements, everybody ends up happy.

More complicated (but possible too) is to take stems to the mastering session: A stereo track of drums, a ST track with the guitar and bass and another one with the voice (for example). It might take longer (and cost you more) but if you are unsure about your mix, is probably the way to go... and make sure you tell the Mastering Engineer about this before your session as I know some guys that just wouldn't work with more than 1 ST track and the guys who would do it would like to know, believe me.

So I don;t know if this answer your question but 4 things I would advice is to:

1: Listen to your mix in a number of different speakers and spaces and see how it's translating.

2: Use quality monitors

3: Never understimate acoustic treatment

4: practice, practice, practice.

I hope this helps.

Gomez

 

[dabhoys]

Thanks Gomez for that. That helps to shed some light on my situation

So do you believe that there is a such a thing as mixing for mastering or is mixing is mixing and then mastering. Or is wise to consider what may happen when the mastering happens?

Cheers...

 

[Nebulous]

I know sort of what you mean. Though i've never sent anything to a mastering engineer, i do it all myself. Even then i do find that after some "corrective" (ie:subtle) EQ and limiting i have to go back and change the levels, especially the guitar-bass ballance and the drums (within the balance of each other).
To help you out with your problem, before you settle on a mix and send it to the mastering engineer, try doing a rough mastering of the mix, even with just a limiter, and you will get an idea of what problems might occur, and you can fix them so that the mastered copy doesnt have a screwed up balance compared to your original mix.

Daniel\m/

 

[Gomez]

Thanks Gomez for that. That helps to shed some light on my situation

So do you believe that there is a such a thing as mixing for mastering or is mixing is mixing and then mastering. Or is wise to consider what may happen when the mastering happens?

Cheers...

dabhoys,

this is hard to tell. I guess if you know your limitations, you can mix for the master.

When I mix something, I try to ensure that everything is "right", but I leave room for equing the highs and the lows. The reason why I do this is because a mastering engineer is likely to have spent over £3000 on a analog stereo eq that is going to sound nicer than a a plugin. I do this myself If I'm mixing and mastering a project: I mix in Protools use my plugins, a little outboard but Idon't touch my Manley MP eq until I the mix is done (sometimes I use it to eq vocals and instruments, but not as much as I'd like to). then when Mastering I put in the MP add bottom and highs (and no plugin gives me that sound!).

Same thing apply to compression. don't go and pop a compressor in the stereo buss before a mastering session; the mastering engineer might have a better compressor than you and more experience in using "program compression"

What you can probably get away with would be limiting, and this is because, the Waves L2 is still widely used by many mastering engineers (some swear by it, some absolutely hate it).

A well recorded, and well mixed project might just end up needing a bit of limiting, some times all you need is the words of the mastering engineer saying "it doesn't need anything" but this is becoming rare these days as computers has made audio production very cheap. There was no "budget" equipment or "bedroom studios" in the 70's and sound engineers were higly skilled people who knew everything from recording and mixing to electronics, acoustics, etc. (sorry I kind of gone off topic)

Nebulous is quite right when suggesting to send in a pseudo-master to the mastering suite. it helps a lot as you get an idea of what the client wants to sound like.

So it's a tough call. I think experience will tell.

And one more thing:

I normally think it pays to take your material to a mastering engineer to be mastered. If record and mix a project, I tend not to do the mastering (but in some of cases I end up doing it due to budgets and deadlines) because I have listened to the thing a million times already and I believe I kind of become a bit biased. You might think it sounds great, but if you take it to a mastering engineer, he or she might point something out that you didn't hear before and give you a different perspective. Plus you get to listen to your mix through top quality reference monitors, converters etc which might show you something you didin't see before!

I'm not saying "don't master yourself"

Just my morning rumblings.

Gomez

 

[James Murphy]

i'm not afraid to say it. don't master yourself. there, i said it.

 

[James Murphy]

i'm also not afraid to say that if you are serious about finding a deal for your band, and are in your first five years of learning, don't record and/or mix your own band.. get someone better than you.. someone who can make it killer. labels expect "killer" these days, so if you really want to be signed, don't experiment on yourself or make a learning project out of your own band.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Probably a bit off topic but I second what James just said about the label shit...

 

[Gomez]

i'm not afraid to say it. don't master yourself. there, i said it.

I second this. If you are serious about getting your music out there, avoid D.I.Y.

I play in a band where two other guys are sound engineers too. When it came to making an album, we got an external sound engineer/producer and we wnet to a mastering suite. We could have done it all ourselves, but I'm SOOOO glad we didn't.

I practically had pretty much nothing to do with the production of the album and it was great to do it that way.

If you are making your first demo, then you can have a go to master yourself to save some bucks.

... and if you are recording a serious album/project, record it in a nice studio with a nice fully working and well looked after TAPE MACHINE.... but that's a nother story

 

[James Murphy]

... and if you are recording a serious album/project, record it in a nice studio with a nice fully working and well looked after TAPE MACHINE.... but that's a nother story

hey.. tread easy there buddy... Andy will have you banned if you're not careful.

 

[Gomez]

hey.. tread easy there buddy... Andy will have you banned if your not careful.

He He!

Don't get me wrong James. Digital audio is amazing.

I like the sound of drums on tape in particular, but they always end up in protools. In fact I really like tape for everything else too... I don't work with metal exclusively and tape can be more suitable for different genres, or productions...


... but tape machines are a nightmare (most of the time) and I can't imagine editing, mixing, automating these days without the flexibility that Digital offers.

I'm actually pretty sick of the analog VS digital argument, because there's no argument. they just sound different, they can both sound great, they can both suck!

 

[A Toolish Circle]

i'm also not afraid to say that if you are serious about finding a deal for your band, and are in your first five years of learning, don't record and/or mix your own band.. get someone better than you.. someone who can make it killer. labels expect "killer" these days, so if you really want to be signed, don't experiment on yourself or make a learning project out of your own band.

Killswitch engage ??

 

[unsilpauly]

adam d. has a degree from berkley and is an engineer at zing studios in westfield ma. he is a pro. that is not what james was talkin about i dont think. adam d. was already a good engineer and producer when killswitch did their first album. roadrunner knew what was up from the get go with killswitch.

 

[James Murphy]

adam d. has a degree from berkley and is an engineer at zing studios in westfield ma. he is a pro. that is not what james was talkin about i dont think. adam d. was already a good engineer and producer when killswitch did their first album. roadrunner knew what was up from the get go with killswitch.

^^^yes, thank you^^

and even though all that was true he was still smart enough to get someone better to mix it. \m/

ps: when trying to make a point it's always a good idea to make sure that you have, you know... a point.. and stuff.

 

[unsilpauly]

amen

 

[dabhoys]

I'm a big fan of Adam's work. I got to see them live over the summer at ozzfest in Jersey and they we're excellent. Adam was especially funny with his ammusing story about 'the beaver'

There touring the UK before x-mas but there not coming to Ireland But adam is not with them as he has to get surgery on a bad back or something.

I at least have Obituary in the new year to look forward to and I hope to be working and helping out at that gig

 

[unsilpauly]

I'm a big fan of Adam's work. I got to see them live over the summer at ozzfest in Jersey and they we're excellent. Adam was especially funny with his ammusing story about 'the beaver'

There touring the UK before x-mas but there not coming to Ireland But adam is not with them as he has to get surgery on a bad back or something.

I at least have Obituary in the new year to look forward to and I hope to be working and helping out at that gig

check out the new killswitch dvd, it came out yesterday in the states. its one of the best dvd's ive ever seen from a metal band. everything about it is really good and im sure most killswitch fans would really enjoy it. the live audio which adam mixed is really good.

 

[dabhoys]

I've already got it. It came out here on Monday. I don't know why but cd's are always released earlier then the UK and US in Ireland

 

[Bob Savage]

i'm also not afraid to say that if you are serious about finding a deal for your band, and are in your first five years of learning, don't record and/or mix your own band.. get someone better than you.. someone who can make it killer. labels expect "killer" these days, so if you really want to be signed, don't experiment on yourself or make a learning project out of your own band.

I'm also not afraid to say that in many cases, even if you have 5 years under your belt, if you're "emotionally attached" to the project, at the very least, have as many other sets of good ears involved as you can, and try to delegate tasks like mixing and mastering elsewhere. I'm only a hobbyist, although one that's been tracking for quite some time, but I find it's hard to have a "fresh" perspective on my own tunes, and often times fight too much to make something as I perceive it should be in my head, when a different approach would probably work better.

For somebody shopping their work, like you said, it ought to sound like it could be sold "as is," even if it's not.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

i'm not afraid to say it. don't master yourself. there, i said it.

I have to agree. Most bands will cheap out on this, but a great mastering engineer can be a big help. Let me add one more thing: "Don't blast the shit out of it." Dynamics are good.



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